PDA Capture of Data

Post by **hothothot** » 09 May 2018, 17:16

RM and the Dom's will use it on the walks not individual postmen, so when you get a fast runner who has no breaks and comes in early doesn't do proper van checks etc Then you get the guy who does the job properly will be completely buggers.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 09 May 2018, 17:36

hothothot wrote:RM and the Dom's will use it on the walks not individual postmen, so when you get a fast runner who has no breaks and comes in early doesn't do proper van checks etc Then you get the guy who does the job properly will be completely buggers.

What members will have to realise is that PDA data capture is not a one time thing it's a continuous on going evaluation of outdoor resource which will form part of the weekly resource meeting so doing the job properly for a week makes no difference, the guy who is doing the job properly all the time as long as they are working to a reasonable standard has nothing to worry about from the flyer.The flyers have nothing to worry about....apart from themselves.

Ralph Wiggum · Post by **Ralph Wiggum** » 09 May 2018, 19:54

Is this supposed to end 'ghost overtime'?

People comming in early, not taking breaks, rushing round, cutting corners so they can finish their duty upto 2 hours early. They then go out with 2 rows overtime, rush round and cut corners so they get back to office within their contracted hours.

At the moment, postie gets paid overtime for the 2 rows o/t even though they technically have not done any overtime as they have managed to finish all the work within their own contracted hours.

I believe it will still happen, as DIMs know very few 'runners' would do the o/t if had to be taken out after their shift, at say 1500hrs. This would result in DIMs being unable to clear the office (absence, cut offs etc..) on a daily basis.

So ghost overtime continues.....

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 09 May 2018, 20:14

I see these PDAs as a continuous on-going evaluation of managers 'monitoring everyone' instead of saving the company money by getting off their own ar$es and helping staff out instead. But my bad, they won't be 'monitoring everyone' will they, because if they suddenly gave more work to one of the runners via 'walk optimisation' as you call it, what is to stop them from deciding to slow it down, work to time and leave some mail/packets behind on that day/week??

Also what is a 'reasonable standard'? Could it be 20 parcels scanned per hour? 1 loop per hour? Without actually knowing explicitly what the standards are, how is anyone supposed to know and how is any Union Rep supposed to defend anyones corner if this were the case?

I'm really not a fan of these PDAs being used in the hands of management. I think its a bit like the Prozone game analysis that football managers use to analyse how many passes footballers have made, possession, shots on goal, tackles completed etc etc BUT it doesn't show you why a choice was made or what shots could have been made and where. Managers love using all this data, I mean our office is covered with flowcharts, bar graphs, action plans and all manner of fancy things that suggests to me that managers clearly have too much time on their hands.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 09 May 2018, 21:27

Regarding 'reasonable standard' the DOM will go out with you on delivery and time you. If they see you are doing your best and not hanging about there will be no problem. If the DOM thinks the walk is too long or too short they will see if they can remedy it although it is not certain there will be an easy way to do it.
We all have to start doing the job properly in a 'work to rule' sense. If not we will be losing more hours if not whole walks from our offices. Those that try to persist with 'job and finish' will end up effectively screwing their comrades over.

mr hil. · Post by **mr hil.** » 09 May 2018, 21:33

Ralph Wiggum wrote:Is this supposed to end 'ghost overtime'?

People comming in early, not taking breaks, rushing round, cutting corners so they can finish their duty upto 2 hours early. They then go out with 2 rows overtime, rush round and cut corners so they get back to office within their contracted hours.

At the moment, postie gets paid overtime for the 2 rows o/t even though they technically have not done any overtime as they have managed to finish all the work within their own contracted hours.

I believe it will still happen, as DIMs know very few 'runners' would do the o/t if had to be taken out after their shift, at say 1500hrs. This would result in DIMs being unable to clear the office (absence, cut offs etc..) on a daily basis.

So ghost overtime continues.....

If they log into their PDA when they first sign in then the "overtime" could be viewed/logged as starting before their scheduled start time, add 20 minutes of worked meal break (correctly Paid as overtime) and you will still have justifiable reason to book overtime yet finish at your scheduled time. The PDA actuals will prove you have indeed worked extra..

Work however you want to, come in early take limited meal relief and go home early, just don't belittle others that choose to start on time and take a full meal relief, by commenting on how you always get finished by XXX time and they are always later!!

Don't forget an optimized walk could be the current oversized walk reworked to be more managable, I guess it will depend on your rep in the weekly resource meeting. Also any identifiable data collected about an individual cannot be shared or discussed with anybody else without their explicit consent.

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 09 May 2018, 21:39

Celgar wrote:Regarding 'reasonable standard' the DOM will go out with you on delivery and time you. If they see you are doing your best and not hanging about there will be no problem. If the DOM thinks the walk is too long or too short they will see if they can remedy it although it is not certain there will be an easy way to do it.
We all have to start doing the job properly in a 'work to rule' sense. If not we will be losing more hours if not whole walks from our offices. Those that try to persist with 'job and finish' will end up effectively screwing their comrades over.

What f***ing planet are you on ? "Dom thinks the walk is too long" you must be kidding, "remedy" Beam me to your office pleeeease

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 09 May 2018, 22:05

The AHDC will time from when we arrive at work til when we start delivering. The PDA actuals will time from leaving for delivery til returning to the office. The information collected is going to go above the heads of the DOMs and changes to be made will come from above. Any postie who thinks they can carry on not taking their breaks within duty time or going home an hour early is utterly naive. This will not be allowed anymore. I believe it will fix duties that are incorrectly timed which will be a good thing. DOMs are really worried about some posties getting back much earlier than duty end. You have been warned!

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 09 May 2018, 22:13

BELIAL wrote:
Celgar wrote:Regarding 'reasonable standard' the DOM will go out with you on delivery and time you. If they see you are doing your best and not hanging about there will be no problem. If the DOM thinks the walk is too long or too short they will see if they can remedy it although it is not certain there will be an easy way to do it.
We all have to start doing the job properly in a 'work to rule' sense. If not we will be losing more hours if not whole walks from our offices. Those that try to persist with 'job and finish' will end up effectively screwing their comrades over.
What f***ing planet are you on ? "Dom thinks the walk is too long" you must be kidding, "remedy" Beam me to your office pleeeease

Not BSing you. If a walk is too long then something should be done to compensate for that. Two walks in our office were deemed to be too long and so any postie doing those walks doesn't have to do the IPS. I would have preferred the walks were reworked but that would have resulted in a lot of walk redesign and maybe yet another full resign. It is the job of the DOM in conjunction with the union rep to do this. Its probably the most important element of the job for the DOM.

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 09 May 2018, 23:35

The RM you work for and the RM I work for are two different beasts entirely . Look after yours or you will end up in a vipers pit with bullying; abuse of process ;general chaos and miss management cowboys running riot with no oversight or union protection. Forget national agreements ,it''s make it up as suits .

rangers20181982 · Post by **rangers20181982** » 31 May 2018, 19:09

Ive got a genuine question? Up in Scotland there are 3 or 4 units signed up to these new 5 hour plus deliverys, they are a nightmare and after 3 hours you need a break,
so I don't take my break in the morning I take it outdoor halfway point, so are they going penalise me for sitting in my van taking my break. Why in any other job and it is ok to take ur break either in the morning or in the middle of the day long as its not at the end. But with Royal mail they want you to take your break in the morning when their is no facilities, and with 5 hour deliverys its not possible to function a whole day walking without a break, and theres specials that need to be done by 1pm.

Can someone tell me if you are allowed to take your meal relief on delivery or are the CWU forcing you to take it the morning?

A2B · Post by **A2B** » 31 May 2018, 22:00

No one can give you an answer because it hasn't started yet, maybe an idea to bring your query to your DOM and rep.

I guess like most things in RM it will run differently from office to office.

postman_jack · Post by **postman_jack** » 01 Jun 2018, 10:58

As long as you take your break and its away from workstation, taking outdoors is fine as far as I aware. Its the norm with the rurals down my way, very little prep but outdoor is huge. The brief I had with the dom and cwu also said that the PDA actuals can prove you've taking your meal relief outside.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 01 Jun 2018, 19:30

rangers20181982 wrote:Ive got a genuine question? Up in Scotland there are 3 or 4 units signed up to these new 5 hour plus deliverys, they are a nightmare and after 3 hours you need a break,
so I don't take my break in the morning I take it outdoor halfway point, so are they going penalise me for sitting in my van taking my break. Why in any other job and it is ok to take ur break either in the morning or in the middle of the day long as its not at the end. But with Royal mail they want you to take your break in the morning when their is no facilities, and with 5 hour deliverys its not possible to function a whole day walking without a break, and theres specials that need to be done by 1pm.

Can someone tell me if you are allowed to take your meal relief on delivery or are the CWU forcing you to take it the morning?

I would imagine if the PDA doesn't move for twenty minutes I think they will class that as being your first 20 minute break.

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 02 Jun 2018, 10:44

All this data capture is surely going to be used to implement some kind of predicted delivery window akin to what DPD use.