They Are Under Pressure!!

[Tman]

Although, it doesn't surprise me that you were so ready to jump to conclusions, and make unfounded accusations about me. You've been in trouble for this type of thing before. Please learn from your mistakes.

I think you should reconsider this. If it's the occasion I recall, it was me who pointed out to someone else that they were making unfounded aaccusations about you.
{unless it's another occasion entirely, in which case please tell me the when and where}

If that's not happening where you are. Then you obviously have an inept Manager. Particularly in the current climate. [/color]

He doesn't deal with how fast or slow operators are, in any climate.

Not MC stuff. Not applicable, not interested.
The first example, relates to DO Posties. You were the one who brought them into this, by accusing them of being lazy and poorly educated.

We've covered this particular ground already.

We're all Posties. The sooner we start sticking together, the better.

We're clearly not "all posties" and judging by the posts on here about certain aspects like using cars, etc, "sticking together" seems a bit of a dream too.

Would you prefer this to descend into another of your slanging matches. Or be a useful debate?

Slanging match or useful debate; that probably depends where you're coming from...

And there you have it! It's not a case of someone being forced off that Duty to make room for an incompetant. It's a case of the Manager not having anyone else trained in the use of the equipment.

Not it's not, it's about inept staff, whether trained or not. You did understand the Schumacher analogy, didn't you?

Having to leave an incompetant in charge of it, because there's no-one else who can operate it at all. Have you thought about asking to be trained?

No, and why would I ask to be trained?

There should always be Reserves (the worst the Manager could say, is no!), for any type of equipment. That way, if the Postie you're referring to, continues to be as bad as you say he is. The Manager would have someone else to replace him with. Or do you just like complaining, without trying to do anything about it?

[Sigh] Now you are sounding like a certain other poster who makes it up [badly] as he goes along.
I was making the point that seniority isn't the best way to choose staff in an MC; check back and you'll see. Nothing to with complaining, or me asking for training (although the logic of that escapes me) or accusing DO posties of this that or the other.

[axeman]

To use shucmacker is a bit ott tman that guy was one of a kind probably never see the likes of him again ........but still you harp on about inept posties without decending into slanging matches rather think youv'e overstepped the mark there ....but 'a-typical' of the managers royal fail now have as for inept you need go no further ......as they say the buck stops there

[BELIAL]

:crazy Inner strength ,nowt quite like it

[andy2007]

When I said that I wasn't surprised that you were jumping to conclusions, and making false accusations. I was referring to your attitude in general. How many times are you going to accuse Delivery Posties of being lazy and poorly educated specifically: "Seniority may work for DO workers, but when there's a even a little skill or effort etc involved, it sadly goes awry". How else could anyone take a statement like that?
And then there's the infamous "Bent Ref." accusations about one of my Collegues. When he deals with complaints with the same impartiality as me. Yes, we do sometimes post things that others don't agree with. And that obviously shows everyone what we believe personally, and where our loyalties lie. But if a complaint is made. It doesn't matter if it's against a Manager, Postie, Moderator, Admin, Customer, Politition, or whatever. We deal with that complaint, in the same way.

What we don't do (presumably why you made the accusations), is jump in of our own accord. Unless the situation gets very out of hand, or someone complains. And it's very rare that a manager Reports a post, or even PMs one of us to complain.

When I said that we are all Posties, what I meant was: Like it or not. Even the ones who take stupid risks with H&S (overweight bags, etc.), and/or use their cars. Are still Posties. We all make our particular contributions to the delivery of the Mail, from collection, to posting it through the letterbox. There's far too much "us and them". We're all people, and all OPGs work at the same grade. Regardless of their individual Duties, and types of Office (RDC, MC, DO, etc.).

You said that your Managers don't manage performance. But they do in DOs and RDCs. Are you sure that your Managers are fulfilling their Contractual obligations?

Now, you made a fascinating point about whether a debate is useful, or just a slanging match. As far as I'm concerned: So long as the posts are about the subject in hand, and not personal attacks against other posters. It's useful. But if it turns into a collection of personal attacks. Then what does it achieve?
IMHO nothing, beyond "letting off steam".

Why did you think that I was making things up, when I said that there should always be reserves for the equipment?
What happens if someone is on Sick, or Annual Leave?
Does the machine sit idle?
That's what the Reserves are for. If there aren't enough, for your Manager to get someone else to cover, while someone is retrained, or put onto another Duty. Then there aren't enough Reserves, are there?
Obviously, I'm not suggesting that the Postie you told us about, should be kicked off his Duty. But if, after retraining, and disciplinaries. He still makes far too many mistakes. Then there would be little choice, would there?

That's why I suggested that you should ask for training. So you could become a Reserve. And try to do something about the situation, rather than just complaining about it. And accusing other Posties of being inept.

[Big Daz]

The way forward has a selection by skills and selection by seniority section for OPG jobs therefore should the new sorting machinery be classed as selection by skills or by seniority by RML and CWU?

[baldrick]

That's why I suggested that you should ask for training. So you could become a Reserve. And try to do something about the situation, rather than just complaining about it. And accusing other Posties of being inept.

Andy, Tman says he is an engineer, working on the mech, in a MC, not a postie/OPG.
But he seems to think we are somehow inferior to him as we aren't 'skilled' like him.

[BELIAL]

Diconal -400mg mixed with tuinal 250mg ,much more effective and less time consuming

[kay_thebigbird]

After reading certain articles in this debate,as a delivery postie we work a dam site harder than any indoor MC worker & I am most definitely not an uneducated person,& yes I have worked in MC,s & the difference in workloads is incomparable,I do find certain things said by a certain individual quite offensive,I know that I work bloody hard on delivery which is & will alway's be the hardest job within the Royal Mail.

[andy2007]

The way forward has a selection by skills and selection by seniority section for OPG jobs therefore should the new sorting machinery be classed as selection by skills or by seniority by RML and CWU?

I'm not sure, to be honest. The only machinery I've come across at the RDC, are FLTs, Scuds, and the machine for changing the Batteries. With those, it's a case of applying for the training, when they ask for more Reserves. Then biding your time, until a Duty becomes available. But if you aren't up to the job. You end up in the Managers Office. Because the whole place, quickly grinds to a halt, if you can't move the RSCs around fast enough. Which is why I find it so strange that his Manager doesn't seem to be doing anything about the alleged inept machine operators.

[bogstandard]

The way forward has a selection by skills and selection by seniority section for OPG jobs therefore should the new sorting machinery be classed as selection by skills or by seniority by RML and CWU?

My understanding is that the most senior person gets the job (assuming they haven't in the last 12 months signed for another job) regardless of training.
the present incumbent resigns for another duty, but cannot take up the post until the sucessful new applicant has been adequately trained. If the new signee (after training) still cannot do the job then the skilled job is offered to the second most senior applicant, and the present incumbant cannot take up their new duty until a replacement has been found and sucessfully trained. A skilled job as defined by TWF does not prohibit anyone from appling for it nor requesting or recieving the appropriate training.


15.5 Employees who wish to be considered for specialist jobs in general should register their interest via the Resourcing Unit or include it in their own Development Plan, a copy of which will be held by the Resourcing Unit (see section 19). This information will be used for training planning. Where a vacancy arises, equal consideration will be given to individuals who have registered their interest through Development Plan or through the Resourcing Unit in writing at the time when the vacancy is advertised. The objective is to allow and maintain openness and fairness in relation to resourcing specialist posts.

[bogstandard]

sorry, from 15.5 is taken from TWF.

[Tman]

That's why I suggested that you should ask for training. So you could become a Reserve. And try to do something about the situation, rather than just complaining about it. And accusing other Posties of being inept.

Andy, you haven't added anything new, but I still have a couple of questions for you-
1 Why would I want or need training, and why would I want to be a reserve?
2 Why would my manager get involved with operators performance issues?
3 Your replies indicate that you perceive the only thing seperating "good" or "bad" operators, is training, and that "we're all the same ". Do you really believe that?

[pickaname]

That's why I suggested that you should ask for training. So you could become a Reserve. And try to do something about the situation, rather than just complaining about it. And accusing other Posties of being inept.

Andy, you haven't added anything new, but I still have a couple of questions for you-
1 Why would I want or need training, and why would I want to be a reserve?
2 Why would my manager get involved with operators performance issues?
3 Your replies indicate that you perceive the only thing seperating "good" or "bad" operators, is training, and that "we're all the same ". Do you really believe that?

Does anyone actually care should the the question youre asking.

[poopongjockmcploop]

Heres thought -

RDC OPG - moves bag with letter A-Z into RSC labelled A-Z
DO postie - intimate knowledge of people, houses, streets, business, the back bone of the business.

RDC OPG - DSA has taken all the work
DO postie - DSA dumps all the work on said postie to deliver.

Instead of having a pipeline full of mail from RDC to MC to DO we have a situation of rdc toMC toDO

Ask any posties they deliver the same if not as much mail as before, ask a RDC OPG and they're like a bowling green! Thats why WCM can work in an RDC/MC but has zilcho chance in a DO!

[Tman]

Does anyone actually care should the the question youre asking.

You cared enough to bother replying, so obviously you care.

A little more thought would've been better though...