CWU support of Jeremy Corbyn

wannabeek · Post by **wannabeek** » 12 Oct 2016, 21:38

Ooh sorry I dared to input in your private thread. Didn't know it was that. Maybe you should get a room if you can't handle others commenting. 18 yr olds have it ridiculously easy nowadays compared to every previous generation in my opinion. Sorry that is so offensive to you. I'd be surprised if many people are so shocked that I believe that, as I would think it appears pretty obvious to anyone who has seen both sides.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 13 Oct 2016, 15:52

dvbuk55 wrote:
jetblack wrote: You sound like a real go-getter.
Maybe it was because I had been a soldier and the aim was to achieve whatever objective was set at whatever cost. After the army, you then set your own objectives to be achieved and prioritised whatever action was necessary to have what you wanted. The important thing is not to rely on others to give you what you want but create the circumstances that enables you to have those things you want.

Did AL Capone not have the same ideals the fact is we all have to work live together I rather prefer organisation by the state than a free for all for those who can help themselves and no one else but themselves!

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 13 Oct 2016, 16:03

But as we've seen in every country that liked to term itself "communist", with no personal endeavour or reward and only state-run initiatives to take the lead, the whole thing rapidly turns into the lowest common (human) denominator, or as it's better known..ratshit.
I'm amazed that with all the lessons in history from the 20th century, anyone would actually call for more state organisation/intervention in their lives; just bizarre.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 13 Oct 2016, 16:29

Tman wrote:But as we've seen in every country that liked to term itself "communist", with no personal endeavour or reward and only state-run initiatives to take the lead, the whole thing rapidly turns into the lowest common (human) denominator, or as it's better known..ratshit.
I'm amazed that with all the lessons in history from the 20th century, anyone would actually call for more state organisation/intervention in their lives; just bizarre.

Or we could have Capitalism without state intervention but hang on we bail out the banks big business because it has failed the banking sector yet we persecute anyone who says we should protect those who the state should protect the ill the infirm destitute. Yet trillions of pounds spent keeping a failed system that benefits the few for the few by the few! If anything Capitalism has failed for the many and if not all of this nation and the world at large.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 13 Oct 2016, 16:44

Socialism or capitalism, two sides of the same coin. Fixation on which ism is best gives us something to talk about but little else of value. As Tman points out both systems are let down by the human element, both riddled by corruption and greed, about the only difference is motivating the working class.

In the case of capitalism it's simple personal aspiration, socialism relies on tougher things to nail down like "the greater good" and playing on something called social conscience.
Without appearing too cynical I know where I would put my money...every time, humans are naturally greedy and aspirational so you're half way there already.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 13 Oct 2016, 16:54

fishtank wrote:Socialism or capitalism, two sides of the same coin. Fixation on which ism is best gives us something to talk about but little else of value. As Tman points out both systems are let down by the human element, both riddled by corruption and greed, about the only difference is motivating the working class.

In the case of capitalism it's simple personal aspiration, socialism relies on tougher things to nail down like "the greater good" and playing on something called social conscience.
Without appearing too cynical I know where I would put my money...every time, humans are naturally greedy and aspirational so you're half way there already.

But that does not make it right people join politics for other reasons than themselves but to right a wrong or just to highlight what was done in our name and some died for doing so!

Post by **dvbuk55** » 13 Oct 2016, 17:04

k979aaa wrote:what was done in our name and some died for doing so!

What and who in the political arena and lets not go back 100s of years.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 13 Oct 2016, 17:12

dvbuk55 wrote:
k979aaa wrote:what was done in our name and some died for doing so!
What and who in the political arena and lets not go back 100s of years.

The Iraq war Afghanistan! for one

Post by **dvbuk55** » 13 Oct 2016, 17:46

k979aaa wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote:
k979aaa wrote:what was done in our name and some died for doing so!
What and who in the political arena and lets not go back 100s of years.
The Iraq war Afghanistan! for one

The Iraq War and Afghanistan is two and those who lost their lives were servicemen not left wing politicians and if my memory serves me as a serving soldier you could not be a member of a political party. Nor were we interested in politics in any shape or form and we went wherever we were sent without a second thought.

J5.581.
a. Regular Service personnel are not to take any active part in the affairs of any political organization, party or movement. They are not to participate in political marches or demonstrations.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 13 Oct 2016, 18:31

yet we persecute anyone who says we should protect those who the state should protect the ill the infirm destitute.

Example?

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 13 Oct 2016, 19:27

Well the NEO NAZI'S have taken over us all I suspect collusion with the two if not the two are the same. Yet again too many have died for the governments past and present all one can hope is we advance from division and the colour of ones skin and save everyone from the folly of war! For which some have never endured and never will.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 13 Oct 2016, 21:06

I really have clue what you're going on about.
Maybe some punctuation might help?

Post by **dvbuk55** » 13 Oct 2016, 21:51

k979aaa wrote: all one can hope is we advance from division and the colour of ones skin and save everyone from the folly of war!

Spoken like a true Corbynista. There will never be an end to war k9 because man is a natural predator. Oh I suppose in the late 60s or early 70s I once read an article by some American whose name escapes me, called the "Cola/Vodka Theory" which expounded the theory that the cold war was artificially created to help the economies in R&D into weaponry, boost manufacturing in steel, electronics etc for both sides - whether it was true or not I couldn't say but it certainly panned as believable.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 13 Oct 2016, 23:05

OK - a quick recap for newcomers to this thread. We have 3 or 4 main posters to this thread (not including those just passing thru like wannabe, and his elucidatory and succinct brand of "we've never had it so good at 18" political philosophy) - and they are to a man vehemently anti socialist.

Their world view consists, to a largepart, of this :- man is inherently greedy and selfish; you can trust no-one; wisdom and life experience has proven this to be the truth and so these facts are irrefutable; any other view of humanity is naive and a folly; any political system or philosophy based upon any other view is doomed to failure and is naive and a folly; there is no such a thing as altruism in human phsychology; if you cite examples of altruism I will always be able to reduce them and explain them via self interest; leaders don't wear sandals; real men chew bacca and swallow; work hard and you'll get what you deserve; whilst greed might not be said to be exactly "good", the social and financial aspirations of the individual makes them more productive and creative thereby facilitating the overall growth of the economy and the greater happiness for the greater number; OK- greed is good

; its working for me, and if its not working for you its your own fault - start taking responsibility like I had to (when I was in the military/18/otherwise going thru growing pains); this world is made for those who are able to grasp opportunities, and I am one such a person; principles are great sonny, but no-one will ever vote for them - they are a luxury; I used to believe but then I stopped believing/lost my faith/wised up.

I'm alright - and if you aren't alright don't blame me and don't ask me to pay tax to help you out cos its your own fault.

etc etc etc - blah blah blah.

Donald Trump in a Ford Mondeo with a EuroMillions scratchcard

Post by **dvbuk55** » 14 Oct 2016, 03:56

jetblack wrote:OK - a quick recap for newcomers to this thread. We have 3 or 4 main posters to this thread (not including those just passing thru like wannabe, and his elucidatory and succinct brand of "we've never had it so good at 18" political philosophy) - and they are to a man vehemently anti socialist.

Donald Trump in a Ford Mondeo with a EuroMillions scratchcard

I suppose I would be classed according to you as vehemently anti socialist, when the truth is I am vehemently anti left wing socialism as are other posters in this forum. That doesn't make us good time Charlie's, on the contrary, I personally have worked non-stop for over 50 years, always paid taxes, national insurance as demanded and contributed to pension funds and charities. Now how far do you left wing socialists demand I go to fulfil my obligation to humanity? It would be very interesting to see what and how much these nouveau socialists would contribute to create the utopia they envision or more likely rip off from those better off so they could benefit from a "fairer" society.

As for Trump and his Mondeo and scratch card, well that eludes me.