Ask not what the union can do for you..

[daveyeff]

well from what ive heard privatisation is going to be pushed through no matter what. its a ''done deal'' was on one reps lips?? if it is privatised then everything WILL be irrevelent.

[daveyeff]

if the anger is irrelevant fish. then whats to stop them doing another shyte deal. then further casting aside our increasing anger as being just as irrelevant.

[fishtank]

if the anger is irrelevant fish. then whats to stop them doing another shyte deal. then further casting aside our increasing anger as being just as irrelevant.

If they're going to do another shite deal davey,our anger won't stop them.
They already know how delivery feels about BT2010.

[Cut Off King]

BT2010 was the last straw, but the rot started with the way forward agreement.

Its about then that the union stopped promoting members interests and started to manage our decline

Out T&C's have got worse

Instead of opposing RM's plans, the CWU have steadly given away our T&C's.

RM have become enboldened by the repeated weak responces of the CWU.
RM want 5 changes, so they ask for 15......CWU negotiate them down to 7 change's and RM are laughing all the way to the bank, and the CWU sell it as " the best we could get under the circumstances"

[dvbuk55]

BT2010 was the last straw, but the rot started with the way forward agreement.

Its about then that the union stopped promoting members interests and started to manage our decline

Out T&C's have got worse

Instead of opposing RM's plans, the CWU have steadly given away our T&C's.

RM have become enboldened by the repeated weak responces of the CWU.
RM want 5 changes, so they ask for 15......CWU negotiate them down to 7 change's and RM are laughing all the way to the bank, and the CWU sell it as " the best we could get under the circumstances"

I wouldn't argue with your take on the situation cok. The problem with BT2010 was the CWU was taken hook, line and sinker by RM promising full cooperation and offering a partnership, financial incentives and then we have the famous "Joint Statements". The CWU lost sight of its purpose and began on the rocky road of complicity with the management. When the deal goes bad.....................we'd like your support.

[pcb]

You would think everyone gets paid the minimum wage, has no holiday pay, has no sick pay, has no pension with employer paying in, has no say over management decisions, has no representation, has no uniform, has no Heath and safety regs, pay rises through a resession and has no.........forget it! Terms and conditions given away?????
you must remember the WFA 2000 and the BT2010 agreement were passed by a majority through democratic elections.
Or are you just a democrat when it goes you way?

[Cut Off King]

You would think everyone gets paid the minimum wage, has no holiday pay, has no sick pay, has no pension with employer paying in, has no say over management decisions, has no representation, has no uniform, has no Heath and safety regs, pay rises through a resession and has no.........forget it! Terms and conditions given away?????
you must remember the WFA 2000 and the BT2010 agreement were passed by a majority through democratic elections.
Or are you just a democrat when it goes you way?

ve
I do remember a time when every agreement improved the lot of RM workers.....The last few have just managed decline, with the strapline "its the best we could get"
I remember the "Billy & Dave roadshow" that was rolled out to ensure a yes vote

I remember 1st & 2nd deliveries, 2 weeks to deliver 1 D2D item, 2.5 hour delivery spans, NDA , UPAP, saturday allowance, PHG allowance, time to do the job. Managers who worked their way up the ranks , not dropped straight in at the top.

I remember starting early, putting the customer 1st. all deliveries going out EVERY day. A time before lapsing.

The list is not exhaustive

[pcb]

The point I was getting at is that in today's environment we still get good value and I would rather have a union than just doff my hat when a boss is lurking about! Come to think of this have you tried to become a rep and use your skills in tackling management?

[fishtank]

I think the problem is one of engagement pcb.

It's not really enough to say we would be worse off without a union and expect members to accept that as being a good enough reason for the existence of an operation that burns £28 million of members money every year.

I don't even think the members want more money.I don't even think they expect miraculous results,I just think they want to see a clear demarcation line between employer and union and a feeling that their representatives at local level,branch level and national level are all putting the members first before looking out for themselves.

Some sections of the union are not pulling their weight,some branches and reps are quite frankly piss poor and to see these particular Branch delegates cheering away at conference as if they are actually contributing to the cause is quite frankly nauseating and a kick in the teeth for the members in these branches.

Let's remember it's these very same Branch Officials who will be tasked with engaging the members over these issues...that doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

[borders]

agreed but RM have moved on from the last agreement. their next move after privatisation will be even more catastrophic for us all. I keep reading posties will not support the union because of the last agreement. surely that agreement is irrelevant now, there are many more terms and conditions still in place that can be attacked.

How on earth can you describe the agreement as irrelevant ?

The union actively promoted a deal that increased delivery workloads & stress, they encouraged RM with "joint statements" they helped RM ( through revision activity ) to heap unrealistic targets upon members.

The terms of the agreement are still here. It didn't dissapear at the end of 3 years

The suffering is ongoing.

look , IMO the point I was trying to make , when or if we are privatised that agreement will look a cakewalk in comparison. taking into account the type of work we do , the backdrop of the poor state of the economy and a Government hell bent on making the working class pay . I have done deliveries and it was flaming hard work even then so I understand where you are coming from. words are not much help to you if you are suffering, granted. if the Government and RM get their way and the Union end up in an even weaker state , I don't see the BT agreement ever being reversed or improved upon. its a never ending fight under capitalism, like the Chuckle Brothers - " to me , to you ". have a read of Fishtanks thread regarding the Union Conference. other peoples views there that paint a picture of past, present and future. I may be wrong along with them and all things will be rosey after all. I will be quite happy to hold my hands up and admit I was wrong and I will start voting Tory and dress in all blue every day....

[borders]

apologises to dvbuk 55 for repeating myself again !!

[dvbuk55]

Well far be it from me to be a Jeremiah but things aren't going to get any better privatised or not. Nothing is going to stop modernisation it may be slowed down but it marches on remorselessly. Who will benefit from the changes ...........well you can bet your arse it won't be we employees or the customer. Cut of King made a very valid point on the things we have lost and the response was "think of how bad things would be without the union" - now all those things have happened WITH the union. What we need from the union is the bottom line not a half arsed partnership with RM - I'd rather hear the union say "it is what it is, we cannot change things, the future is bleak and we are likely to be a two tiered workforce and we need to manage the change as painlessly as possible".

[pcb]

Unbelievable! Taking your stance you would have done what? Had the picket out for 3 weeks straight? Do you think you would have been able to keep all out for 3 weeks? Come get real most have a problem going out for 1 week let alone 3 weeks.
Now the rolling strikes worked well and it will be this action that will see some success in the very near future. But we still had many saying it was getting critical! So you would have been in discussions and crunching the numbers and still carried on with more and more crossing, then you would have what? Can we please have the first offer back!!
The union is trying to get the best deal what the bloody hell do you think their doing?

[daveyeff]

the rolling strikes worked well?? they were the best idea the unions ever had. we had them beat.

[dvbuk55]

the rolling strikes worked well?? they were the best idea the unions ever had. we had them beat.

Really? and look where we are now - does it look like we have them beat? Rhetoric is cheap at conference but it's in the actuality that it counts. The union is a shambles and has been for a long time, it is no longer a whole but a series of unconnected units and until such time that every single member, every rep, branch and union official sings from the same hymn sheet AND BELIEVES it - we'll never be strong enough.