CWU Live at 5pm - Updating You Direct from the National Briefing

[tramssirhc]

Two minutes in “we gotta manage expectations”.

I think Martin has forgotten that his role is to represent the members not to manage them.

Or is it?

They've adopted the German model where the union acts as an intermediary between the workforce and the employer. Their role is to dampen the shocks, quell disquiet, and fundamentally act as a parallel management in executing orders. The retreat from the top of the hill that was the end to the last dispute was the point where the CWU confronted existentialism and made this decision out of pure survival instinct.

The CWU accepted and implemented social partnership when the TUC invited Jacques Delores along to tell the useless trade union 'leaders' all about how great it was in Europe being part of works councils. This was how the lazy corrupt trade union bosses responded to the years of thatcherite attacks on workers - social partnership and the services model of trade unionism. That still being peddled on the TUC courses for reps. Don't blame the Germans. Blame awful trade unionists like Ward and Walsh.

[SpacePhoenix]

What real power do reps have if RM have decided in the long term that the no driving role is finished, if it isn't why are the CWU helping the company investigate how non drivers can become drivers? Hopefully any non drivers can keep their roles i definitely but it's unlikely they'll be replaced if they ever leave RM.

They might have to move to a new DO. iirc RM only need to demonstrate that they were offered another job within the business to win a employment tribunal.

[TopperGas]

What real power do reps have if RM have decided in the long term that the no driving role is finished, if it isn't why are the CWU helping the company investigate how non drivers can become drivers? Hopefully any non drivers can keep their roles i definitely but it's unlikely they'll be replaced if they ever leave RM.

They might have to move to a new DO. iirc RM only need to demonstrate that they were offered another job within the business to win a employment tribunal.

Why do you have to continually try and scaremonger about posties jobs when you work in an MC?

[Londonsburning]

Trolling delivery posties. Same as a select other few posters on here.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

What real power do reps have if RM have decided in the long term that the no driving role is finished, if it isn't why are the CWU helping the company investigate how non drivers can become drivers? Hopefully any non drivers can keep their roles i definitely but it's unlikely they'll be replaced if they ever leave RM.

They might have to move to a new DO. iirc RM only need to demonstrate that they were offered another job within the business to win a employment tribunal.

Incorrect, reasonableness comes into it:

In UK employment law, specifically concerning redundancy and unfair dismissal, the concept of "suitable alternative employment" is crucial. While it's not as simple as an employer just needing to "demonstrate they were offered another job," the offering of suitable alternative employment is a significant factor in whether a dismissal is considered fair.

Here's a breakdown of the key points, relevant to Royal Mail or any other employer:

Employer's Obligation: If an employer is making an employee redundant, they have an obligation to look for and offer any "suitable alternative employment" within their organisation or an associated company. Failure to do so can lead to a claim for unfair dismissal. This is particularly important for employees with at least two years of continuous service.

What constitutes "suitable" alternative employment? The suitability of an alternative job depends on several factors, including:

How similar the work is to the employee's current job (duties, responsibilities).
The terms of the job being offered (pay, benefits, status, hours, location).
The employee's skills, abilities, and circumstances in relation to the job. For example, a significant increase in commuting time or cost, or disruption to family life (e.g., childcare issues due to changed hours), could make a job unsuitable.
Health issues or disabilities of the employee, and whether reasonable adjustments can be made.
Trial Period: If an employee is offered suitable alternative employment, they have a statutory right to a 4-week trial period to see if the new role is suitable. This period can be extended if training is required, with written agreement. If, during this trial period, the employee reasonably decides the new job is not suitable, they can leave without losing their right to redundancy pay.

Refusal of Offer:

Reasonable Refusal: If an employee reasonably refuses an offer of suitable alternative employment, they generally retain their right to statutory redundancy pay. The reasons for refusal must be justifiable based on the factors listed above (e.g., lower pay, vastly different duties, unreasonable commute, personal circumstances).
Unreasonable Refusal: If an employee unreasonably turns down suitable alternative employment, they may lose their right to statutory redundancy pay. The onus would be on the employer to demonstrate that the offer was indeed suitable and the refusal unreasonable.
Unfair Dismissal Claims:

If an employer has suitable alternative employment available but does not offer it to a redundant employee, the dismissal could be deemed automatically unfair.
Even if an offer is made, if the job is not genuinely "suitable," and the employee therefore refuses it, a tribunal might still find the dismissal unfair if the employer then dismisses them for redundancy without redundancy pay.
Royal Mail Specifics: While the general principles apply, specific cases involving Royal Mail have highlighted various aspects. For example, recent cases have involved considering alternative employment as a "reasonable adjustment" for disabled employees and ensuring thorough exploration of all possible alternative roles before dismissing on capability grounds.

In summary, for Royal Mail (or any UK employer) to successfully defend an unfair dismissal claim related to redundancy and alternative employment, they need to demonstrate that:

A genuine redundancy situation existed.
A fair consultation process was followed.
They actively searched for and offered any genuinely suitable alternative roles.
If an offer was refused, the refusal was unreasonable, and the job was indeed suitable based on objective and subjective criteria.
The mere act of offering a job isn't enough; it has to be a suitable job, and the employee's reasons for refusing it are subject to scrutiny by an employment tribunal.

[Martin Walsh]

There are 83 thousand OPGs who work in Delivery. There are 8400 who do not drive currently from Royal Mail.

No one who does not drive currently will be forced to.

The Optimised Delivery Model which Ofcom are likely to sanction as the USO reform solution works better with more drivers within a unit but CDVs do not require all drivers and nor do HCT routes.

We are also piloting HCTs doing a combined route being replenished.

The aim is to agree that no one will do more than a maximum of 3 core routes per week. We already know in some pilot units that they rotate on a daily basis between a performing a core routes per week and combined.

The reality is that the USO will change in the summer and that is why it is crucial to secure the right agreement.

Remember the choice is not between the current USO which is simply not financially sustainable according to Ofcom. It is the optimised Delivery Model or a 3 or 4 day USO.

It is easy for some on here to criticise and attack and abuse and remain anonymous. You have no responsibility and in fact are not accountable to anyone.

Myself , Dave and others at least have the courage to face up to members and no members , we don’t hide behind fake names and we don’t abuse individuals.

We attempt to lead and we negotiate on behalf of the members.

What’s more we make real differences to the members individually in cases where individuals are sacked or been targeted and collectively.

[Mr Rush]

The reality is that the USO will change in the summer

I should have noticed far earlier the use of the phrase 'pilot offices' revealed that this was never a real trial. The other 1,200 DOs will be guided onto a sandbank by November.

[SkiSunday]

Myself , Dave and others at least have the courage to face up to members and no members , we don’t hide behind fake names and we don’t abuse individuals.

That is LITERALLY YOUR JOB Martin, and a job that you are ridiculously overpaid for at that.

[TopperGas]

Shocking we now have CWU officials attacking posters on our own forum, you have to sense the truth must be, finally, starting to get to them.

At least MW has finally admitted the trials are a sham and the USO reforms will be introduced regardless of the outcome of the trials, you do wonder what other lies they keep telling it's members. The CWU is like the Labour party it supports, you can't believe a word they say.

[HarrySutton111]

Shocking we now have CWU officials attacking posters on our own forum, you have to sense the truth must be, finally, starting to get to them.

At least MW has finally admitted the trials are a sham and the USO reforms will be introduced regardless of the outcome of the trials, you do wonder what other lies they keep telling it's members. The CWU is like the Labour party it supports, you can't believe a word they say.

[moon71]

Easy to criticise the union. And also easy to be blind to the real facts of what's happening. It's also easy to argue the changes when the letter industry is wrapping up.

In a different world. Much like the real world the choices would be allot harsher. Non drivers could be easily just be made redundant. Maybe 10 years from now, you folks will be arguing the 2 day letter delivery model. If not just one delivery a week.

Let's just sit back and enjoy this spectacle of the PWRFC misinformation and delusion that everyday, you have a letter for every door.

Today I had only 100 letters for a deep rural walk. Oh and 80 packets. Was done by 12.30.

[BELIAL]

Easy to criticise the union. And also easy to be blind to the real facts of what's happening. It's also easy to argue the changes when the letter industry is wrapping up.

In a different world. Much like the real world the choices would be allot harsher. Non drivers could be easily just be made redundant. Maybe 10 years from now, you folks will be arguing the 2 day letter delivery model. If not just one delivery a week.

Let's just sit back and enjoy this spectacle of the PWRFC misinformation and delusion that everyday, you have a letter for every door.

Today I had only 100 letters for a deep rural walk. Oh and 80 packets. Was done by 12.30.

How did you manage that when you work in a mail centre?

[GRS]

Easy to criticise the union. And also easy to be blind to the real facts of what's happening. It's also easy to argue the changes when the letter industry is wrapping up.

In a different world. Much like the real world the choices would be allot harsher. Non drivers could be easily just be made redundant. Maybe 10 years from now, you folks will be arguing the 2 day letter delivery model. If not just one delivery a week.

Let's just sit back and enjoy this spectacle of the PWRFC misinformation and delusion that everyday, you have a letter for every door.

Today I had only 100 letters for a deep rural walk. Oh and 80 packets. Was done by 12.30.

And there in lies the problem……. People assume that what is happening in their bubble is replicated throughout the business.

You had a quiet easy day, I had my busiest day of the week - shed load of mail and 104 tracked + how ever many other non tracked packets. No doubt there will be many others who had much more (and many who had less than you). People need to stop fuelling RM’s & the CWU’s narrative with what volumes they had on their walk that day, it doesn’t reflect reality. As soon as RM or CWU say this or that volumes are falling someone jumps in and says “yeah they’re right cos I had a light day today” etc etc, it’s all peaks and troughs like any other business, unfortunately RM never have been able to handle that fact, they think that every day should be busier than the last one and now they’ve got the union adopting the same attitude. I’m sure neither will be happy until someone snuffs it on delivery!!!

[Pidleypoo]

Just to add to what GRS has said here that in my office we’ve been absolutely battered for months on end. Barely able to do one round between us there’s been so much and others have got 15 plus d2d’s and stacks of mail and some don’t go out for over a week.

If you have a day off or a week off you’re coming back to all of it not gone out.

It’s only now because it’s summer and guess what , this happens every year and it’s a bit lighter mail wise but parcels haven’t calmed down.

I’ve said this before but some of you are in for the shock of your life with what’s coming to you next.

On the days we do one delivery between us I do 30k steps ….ON ONE DELIVERY

The union have consistently buried their heads into the sand on this in units like mine and how do I know that ? Because the area rep has been told and nothing has changed.

And again , non-drives are about to be fatigued out of a job and it’ll be about how long you can hack it.

Others should think about who is going to be managed out of a job next because the union won’t help you.

[SMS1969]

Shocking we now have CWU officials attacking posters on our own forum, you have to sense the truth must be, finally, starting to get to them.

At least MW has finally admitted the trials are a sham and the USO reforms will be introduced regardless of the outcome of the trials, you do wonder what other lies they keep telling it's members. The CWU is like the Labour party it supports, you can't believe a word they say.