Ask a question!Deputy labour leadership canidates and Brown.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

The Labour Party is a Capitalist, anti-working class party and shouldn't be thought of as anything else.

Having read 'Web of Deceit' and 'Unpeople' by Mark Curtis, it's difficult to argue with that opinion. Of course it's a capitalist party. It has always had a good few socialists in membership, but even when it had its two great landslide victories, it never did more than just tinker with capitalism. Public schoolboys like Atlee, Blair, Cripps etc would never have felt comfortable holding membership cards if Labour had been a genuinely socialist party. Is it anti-working class? I think the last ten years have answered that question. The gap between rich and poor is geater than it was under Maggie and Major and not one anti-union law has been repealed.

[dvbuk55]

I'm not familiar with Mark Curtis but he is obviously well educated and has an opinion of the way we are as a nation - and apparently under any shade of government since 1945.

I don't think we should be under any illusion we are good people - we used to be colonialists - and you don't build empires by being nice guys - nor wage war with whoever will fight for whatever reason. But we shoulldn't be ashamed of our history nor should we subscribe to some leftist theory on what socialism should be.

Socialism was ever the ideal not the reality. As with communism the theory was equal shares for all but that didn't happen and the experiment fizzled out within 70 years.

[pillar box]

The history of trade unions during the early 18th century is truly remarkable working conditions were appalling children working in Mills on 12hour shifts.
No Health & Safety starvation wages.appalling housing and sanitary conditions

Lets not forget that the wealth of this country came from shameful exploitation of the working people.

What we take for granted today (Working Conditions & Pay)was won by ordinary people whose only hope was through the Trade Unions.

This saw birth of the Labour Party to amend unjust Laws.(Factory Acts)

Today we have old people living on poverty pensions.workers rights are being eroded including Health & Safety.
unemployment.(40,000 postal jobs 2500 rural post offices closing)

Yes we should be ashamed of our past and also of the future as the Labour Party has betrayed the working people of this country under the Name New Labour(Old Tory)They think more of their pockets than of their principles.

It time to wake up and look for alternative MPs who support the Trade Unions and working people of this country

[Big Daz]

That wil be the green party then in june 2008 when we break the link with labour. Lets be honset we arent going to get the regulator sorted out . It isnt going to happen so lets ballot the mbrs in 6 months time not 12 months.6 months is long enough for GB to show us if will be a freind or foe!

[dvbuk55]

GB is going to be the salvation of the middle classes - you know the very vociferous active voters who put Labour into power - that is opposed to those who consider themselves "working class".

I'd really like someone to explain who falls into this mystical category Because we work it doesn't make us working class - that was a description of those who had little education, had no workers rights, had no union and by hard work and deprivation forged a future which we now enjoy.

As a worker I would like to see equal opportunity for all, the right to education to the extent of ones ability, free health care, the right to a pension and dignity and respect for the elderly.

Now who can see the youth of today fighting for those ideals - speak of working class and socialism

[Big Daz]

Good point dvbuk 55

The working class of 2007 are different from those of 1900 when the labour representation committe was formed and even more different from those in the 1800's.

The question needs to be asked how do you define working class in the 21st century and what are the needs and aspirations of 21st century working class.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I think a definition of working class is personal to each individual. My definition would be anyone who works in a hierarchical structure either manual or sedentary who has not progressed beyond supervisor level (or equivalent) and earns less than the average national wage. You could also include anyone who works for themselves of their family with the same stipulation towards earnings.

This would therefore exclude Managers, business owners and Government officials. However it would also exclude every single Labour MP but most have them have lost touch with the "Working Class" anyway.


A second definition of working class could also be those whose family routes are solid working class they would then be working class through birthright.

Not a prefect way to define it but I don't thinks there is one.

[Big Daz]

Members Area
Welcome Big Daz to the members area!

>> Members Homepage | Politics

LTB 502/2007 - Labour Party Deputy Leader Election
06 June 2007


Issuing officer(s): Billy Hayes

To view this download, please click here.



No 502/07
Ref GS 14.0
Date: 6TH June 2007









TO: BRANCH SECRETARY







Dear Colleague



LABOUR PARTY DEPUTY LEADER ELECTION



Further to LTB 455/07 and LTB 478/07, you would want to know that following a debate at Annual Conference, the National Executive Council met on Tuesday 5th June to reconsider the Union’s position.



A discussion took place at that meeting and the decision was taken not to make a recommendation in the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party election. Please ensure that your members are aware of this.



To summarise, in line with the advice given in LTB 455/07 Branches are free to make their own recommendation.



The three candidates who had previously received a recommendation have been advised of the Union’s position.



Any enquiries on this LTB should be addressed to the General Secretary’s Department quoting the reference GS 14.0



Yours sincerely









BILLY HAYES

GENERAL SECRETARY

[Big Daz]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardianpolit ... 99,00.html

[johnston65]

the only one i received a reply from was john cruddas

[Big Daz]

same here

I thik the others are not bothering because the CWU set them questions which they answered, why those questions and answers are not in the hands of the rank and file yet is a mystery.

I would love to know what was asked and waht the answers are. Lets hope the CWU include them with the ballot papers!

I am a branch political officer and even i dont have copies.

Too much fun at the seaside for billy and the heirachy to worry about that though!

[dvbuk55]

Ask yourself this - will it matter in the long run?

[johnston65]

I agree cos as I said before....SAME PISS DIFFERENT BOTTLE

[Big Daz]

From: block sender | add to contacts Alan Johnson
To: Big Daz
Date: 11:40 am, Fri 8th Jun 2007
Subject: Message from Alan Johnson
Message: Dear member

The hustings are nearly over, the campaign leaflets posted and the ballot papers are arriving. It's now over to you to choose who you are going to vote for as the next deputy leader of the party (and who to give your all important second preference).

There is a wide field of candidates reflecting the importance of this role. It will be a key role - in the party, in government and at the next election. It's vital we choose the right person with the right skills and experience.

Someone who sticks by their principles, who doesn't change their position or disown our past because they think it will grab a few votes. Someone who can work with and complement the new leader but can stand up to him if needs be. Someone who has wide ranging experience in government and a genuine understanding of the concerns and motivations of ordinary working people, because their background is the same as the people we in Labour are here to help.

I would like you to vote for me because I believe I am the best candidate for the job. I would like you to vote for me because you are not just voting for a deputy leader. You are voting for a team – two people who will lead the Labour Party in the battle ahead against the Tories. Two people who must complement and support each other – but who between them can spread the appeal of the Labour Party to new members and voters throughout the UK.

The person the party chooses to become deputy will have a real bearing on our chances at the next election. That's why more MPs and MEPs nominated me than any other candidate. That's why I hope you will vote for me.

With best wishes

Alan Johnson

www.johnson4deputy.org

[POSTMAN]

Blimey Daz do you get a free blow job with that an all