Cover being moved due to working days off

[postiewhite]

the cover duty holder has already said it's causing them stress and you think it's perfectly fine for this to continue for the greater good??
lord help us

Better causing one person stress than 50-100 people arguing about the extra lapsing that would enevertibly be involved.

but who said anything about lapsing and since when does 50-100 lapse 1 duty?
sorry but you are wrong on so many levels that you think it's acceptable to potentially put a guy off work with stress then become a target just because another selfish so & so can earn some extra cash without having any stress at all,
i'm certainly glad you aren't my rep or worse still a potential manager

no i think its acceptable to put someone who is used to covering multi duties on a different duty rather than causing extra work for a whole office and putting one person who is working a day off on something they dont know.

Hold on a minute. I told you we have just had a revision. Half of the ones that now have duties were reserves or covers before this. Are you telling me duty holders only know one duty in their office? That is an absolute load of rubbish. There is hardly anyone that has been there a number of years that doesn't know anything outside their own duty. Everyone has been a reserve at some stage.

Of the 10 full timers in my office 8 of them havent done another duty in over 10 years so all the walks have drastically changed.

Personally id like to get rid of duty holders completly and have a pick out the hat every day. When you walk through the door hand in a hat pick a ticket thats your duty for the day, All arguing completely gone as all jobs are equal and all that.

Its not like that in our office. Most people have done other duties, many the exception of the old timers but they never work their days off. Im supposed to cover 4 duties, one of those duties I regularly do, the other three I dont get to cover so out of the remaining 6 duty holders im senior to 4 of them. They were all reserves before the repick a couple of months ago and in all fairness they are more flexible in what they know than iam. I know 6-8 duties well in that office of over 100 duties and my previous manager would look after me but since hes gone im shoved all over. I dont think its acceptable for someone thats been in the job for years to practically go back to reserve so soon after a revision when I basically could have had the pick of the crop. I didnt pick a duty because my cover is over 4 days and that wins hands down over a duty 'if' I was on my 4 covers which I was told I would be. So ive either been sold a dud or I can do something about it hence why I wrote this initial question. I shouldn't have to roll over and accept it. It causes stress.
They do not lapse if a duty doesn't go. You want to see the state of some of the fittings each day but that shouldnt be down to the cost of me.

[POSTMAN]

This subject is well versed on here, the crux of it is the dick or dickess doing OT on their own duty and pushing off the rest day cover is a c word.

[world class male]

it shouldn't matter if you're a very simple 2yearpostie 10 years or 30 years, if you want overtime on day off then you take what's available
is it that obvious!
honestly 2yearpostie, you have dug yourself into a deep hole and cannot justify your comments unless you are management and quite frankly you don't give a toss about any person no matter what stress they're going through
i won't comment on this thread anymore, you are alone in your thinking, maybe you should take a step back and really look at your posts and think of the individual who is suffering rather than the thought of 50-100 people who may have to take out 15 letters extra

[2yearpostie]

it shouldn't matter if you're a very simple 2yearpostie 10 years or 30 years, if you want overtime on day off then you take what's available
is it that obvious!
honestly 2yearpostie, you have dug yourself into a deep hole and cannot justify your comments unless you are management and quite frankly you don't give a toss about any person no matter what stress they're going through
i won't comment on this thread anymore, you are alone in your thinking, maybe you should take a step back and really look at your posts and think of the individual who is suffering rather than the thought of 50-100 people who may have to take out 15 letters extra

Obviously not as plenty of people only work overtime if its on thier own duties so id say im fully in tune with all the duty holders. If anyone has chosen a job where they cover x amount of walks in a week what does it matter if a few more are added to the pool they can put on, especially if they had the chance to have a duty where they stayed on it all week?

Like most people in the company you have to look after yourself first as no one is going to do it for you, and im pretty sure looking after the mental health of the entire office who dont want to be given extra work when its not required is more important than looking after just 1 person who is being difficult.

[2yearpostie]

This subject is well versed on here, the crux of it is the dick or dickess doing OT on their own duty and pushing off the rest day cover is a c word.

What they are bad because theyve come in prevented lapsing and arguments with the management in return for doing the job they know when the cover person by defination should be used to coving duties?

[postiewhite]

it shouldn't matter if you're a very simple 2yearpostie 10 years or 30 years, if you want overtime on day off then you take what's available
is it that obvious!
honestly 2yearpostie, you have dug yourself into a deep hole and cannot justify your comments unless you are management and quite frankly you don't give a toss about any person no matter what stress they're going through
i won't comment on this thread anymore, you are alone in your thinking, maybe you should take a step back and really look at your posts and think of the individual who is suffering rather than the thought of 50-100 people who may have to take out 15 letters extra

Obviously not as plenty of people only work overtime if its on thier own duties so id say im fully in tune with all the duty holders. If anyone has chosen a job where they cover x amount of walks in a week what does it matter if a few more are added to the pool they can put on, especially if they had the chance to have a duty where they stayed on it all week?

Like most people in the company you have to look after yourself first as no one is going to do it for you, and im pretty sure looking after the mental health of the entire office who dont want to be given extra work when its not required is more important than looking after just 1 person who is being difficult.

Thats another dig at someone who isn't a duty holder. So basically what you are saying (in a nutshell) is that its perfectly ok for the cover people to get messed around MORE because they are already getting messed around already? So by telling a duty holder they can work their day off but NOT on their own round will potentially cause mental health problems for lots of people in the office because they 'may' have to lapse? So your saying its better to give one person mental health issues than 'possibly' loads others? A very sick way of looking at it, don't you think?

So ill ask you the question again. If a few duty holders in your office (for example someone that has been on the same duty 20yrs) starts to get moved off their duty for operational needs 3 times a week do you think they will take it on the chin or go and see a rep? Would you say that would be acceptable for the manager to do this to that person on a regular basis? I'd like to hear your response to this and how this would differ from a cover person being taken off their duty

[2yearpostie]

So ill ask you the question again. If a few duty holders in your office (for example someone that has been on the same duty 20yrs) starts to get moved off their duty for operational needs 3 times a week do you think they will take it on the chin or go and see a rep? Would you say that would be acceptable for the manager to do this to that person on a regular basis? I'd like to hear your response to this and how this would differ from a cover person being taken off their duty

Firstly if someone had been on a duty for 20 years they wouldnt be move as they would be no use anywhere else.
If a cover person has had the opportunity to have a none cover job and not taken it then they should fully expect they would the ones being dicked about as they are more useful than the person that basiclly stays on one walk.

I say this as a reserve that has had to cover all but 10 walks in my office that has recently got a regular duty. Personaly if im need elsewhere, fine, i know all the walks. If a collegue that doesnt know any other walks gets asked to be moved i fully get why they wouldnt want to that.

Like i said in a previous post the whole duty holder thing is outdated now anyway. Get everyone in at start time and get them to pick jobs out of a hat.

[fb1969]

Of the 10 full timers in my office 8 of them havent done another duty in over 10 years so all the walks have drastically changed.

I say this as a reserve that has had to cover all but 10 walks in my office that has recently got a regular duty.

So there are 10 full timers in your office, and you have done all but 10 of the walks in your office? How many walks are there, and what is the full time and part time split?

[2yearpostie]

Of the 10 full timers in my office 8 of them havent done another duty in over 10 years so all the walks have drastically changed.

I say this as a reserve that has had to cover all but 10 walks in my office that has recently got a regular duty.

So there are 10 full timers in your office, and you have done all but 10 of the walks in your office? How many walks are there, and what is the full time and part time split?

35 walks, 10 full time, 25 part time. Part timers quite often full time on overtime, full time sometimes cover part time and put d2d in.

[aiden01]

Of the 10 full timers in my office 8 of them havent done another duty in over 10 years so all the walks have drastically changed.

I say this as a reserve that has had to cover all but 10 walks in my office that has recently got a regular duty.

So there are 10 full timers in your office, and you have done all but 10 of the walks in your office? How many walks are there, and what is the full time and part time split?

35 walks, 10 full time, 25 part time. Part timers quite often full time on overtime, full time sometimes cover part time and put d2d in.

Pts will always be pts no matter how much ot they do.

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

Perhaps play the duty holder and lino at their own game, offer to come in on a day off and demand they kick duty holder off their duty for the day, otherwise you are going home.

Both then may see your perspective of being moved off what you are expecting to cover according to resign and rota.

[postiewhite]

So ill ask you the question again. If a few duty holders in your office (for example someone that has been on the same duty 20yrs) starts to get moved off their duty for operational needs 3 times a week do you think they will take it on the chin or go and see a rep? Would you say that would be acceptable for the manager to do this to that person on a regular basis? I'd like to hear your response to this and how this would differ from a cover person being taken off their duty

Firstly if someone had been on a duty for 20 years they wouldnt be move as they would be no use anywhere else.
If a cover person has had the opportunity to have a none cover job and not taken it then they should fully expect they would the ones being dicked about as they are more useful than the person that basiclly stays on one walk.

I say this as a reserve that has had to cover all but 10 walks in my office that has recently got a regular duty. Personaly if im need elsewhere, fine, i know all the walks. If a collegue that doesnt know any other walks gets asked to be moved i fully get why they wouldnt want to that.

Like i said in a previous post the whole duty holder thing is outdated now anyway. Get everyone in at start time and get them to pick jobs out of a hat.

Surely picking jobs out of a hat would create more stress. Imagine you clear a fitting one day and then having to be moved onto another with double mail the next day. Not only that no one will take real responsibility of the door to doors if you are only on that walk for one day. When you have your own duty and an adequate cover person then d2ds get prepped properly. You know yourself that if you take a week off and your walk gets covered with different people every day then d2ds do not get prepped properly you come back to work the following week with loads under the fitting. Trust me I have been in RM a number of years and ive had to come back to a messy frame after a week off because they have had Tom, Dick and Harry on there all week. There needs to be a duty holder(s) on all walks for that responsibility. Your idea wouldn't work.

Just to quickly mention one more thing regarding the cover duty that we have been debating yesterday . I have now been given a partner who is a new starter and doesn't know any walks. She's been in the company 2 months but has now been given the 4 day cover duty
I have stressed to her that she needs to learn these 4 covers. Now in your opinion you think that the duty holders should get priority of their own walk if they work their days off (which they generally do).
So when it comes to their long weekend and they will definitely take their saturday off then do you think its fair that we should cut off for the first few weeks leaving the duty holders with some double mail when they return? Lets be realistic here, if Saturday is the only day that my partner can learn a duty which clearly means she will not be up to speed and with time already tight although doable under normal circumstances then it will either put us on a 30-40min late finish or cut off with the managers permission.?
Do you think the duty holder should understand that they will come back to mail and packets? Lets be honest, what do they expect with them hogging the duty all month and not letting people learn them.

[2yearpostie]

Personally when someone does cover my duty i dont really care if they bring some back if they have good reason.
Would it not be a better idea for your partner to be with each duty holder for 3 consectutive days to learn each duty properly rather than making them try to learn 4 different wals at the same time?

[postiewhite]

Personally when someone does cover my duty i dont really care if they bring some back if they have good reason.
Would it not be a better idea for your partner to be with each duty holder for 3 consectutive days to learn each duty properly rather than making them try to learn 4 different wals at the same time?

Yes, it would but the problem is they are on their duty 6 days a week every week apart from one saturday and one monday each month so its virtually impossible for my partner to ever learn that duty unless its a Saturday and you know yourself from experience it takes 3-5 consecutive days to learn a fitting and to be up to speed with throwing in. Its very difficult to learn a fitting throwing in twice a month, it can slow the partnership down by 15-30 minutes which as you know is time no one can spare especially on a saturday.

[TopperGas]

Ill make it simple for you all. The duty holder is coming in because they need staff. In most cases the duty holder doesnt know any other walks. If the duty holder doesnt come in on thier day off then you wont have enough staff to cover all the walks, this would mean extra lapsing/arguments with management for everyone.

Much fairer for everyone in the office if the duty holder comes in, stays on the walk and the cover (which normally know multipul walks) go where they are needed.

I get what you are saying but I worked in an office for 6 years where the duty holder had to move if they wanted to work their day off. Normally when you work your day off you work it for yourself (because you need the money) NOT to do the company a favour. If you didn't need the money then you simply don't have to work that 6th day do you!! So on the back of what I've just said if you need the money then surely you are prepared to go onto another walk for that day. If I needed the money and I had a duty then I would ask which duties were available that day (and there is always a choice) then I would be happy to go on that for the day and NOT hold the office to random by telling them that I will only go on my own duty!!!
If they need the cash then they will go on a different duty on their day off. Simple

Different in my office, The full timers only know the duty they are on and generally they get asked to come in as there are other (pt) duties in the office that need cover ,so the rest day duty covers whats spare and the duty holder covers the only job they know.

That's the same in my office, I sense if the duty holders were expected to cover a different walk then they wouldn't come in, as it seems a struggle to persuade them to work anyway.