Corbyn

[dvbuk55]

172 PLP members can't all be wrong.

251,417 Labour Party members and affiliated members voted for Corbyn in the leadership election last August. 59.5% of the total vote. He got over 40% more votes than the runner up, and more than all the other candidates combined. Are all those members wrong?
Rather more than 172 mps who have been on the parliamentary gravy train*, while overseeing the electoral decline of the Labour Party over the last 30 years.

*I can't remember the exact figures, but last year Jeremy Corbyn claimed about £6k in expenses, Angela Eagle claimed about £26k, and Owen Smith claimed about £156k.

I'm afraid you just don't get it. He could have 2 million supporters and it still wouldn't get him into number 10. How many people do you think voted for the 172 members of the PLP? In an election people aren't voting for a leader of the labour party they are voting for the manifesto that party produces which MUST be acceptable to the 9 million plus voters who vote Labour. In addition the leader must show leadership and have a presence which he just does not have. Corbyn is a throwback to the 70s which just will not cut it in the 21st century. If the objective of having a party responsible enough to be a relevant opposition worthy of election to govern the country why would anyone support Corbyn. All the Corbyn supporters are assuming if he wins, the PLP will recant and support him but that is far from the truth. The more likely scenario will be the PLP will breakaway and take with them the vast labour support necessary to win an election. Rather than they being the ones for deselection those who support Corbyn will, at the next election, lose their seat and they won't be the only ones. The good thing about that will be Corbyn and McDonnell will resign and the labour party can get back to building a truly representative labour party.

[britwrit]

Labour share of the vote in 2015: 30.4%
Labour support in the latest Ipsos-Mori poll: 34%

[dvbuk55]

Labour share of the vote in 2015: 30.4%
Labour support in the latest Ipsos-Mori poll: 34%

2015 - General election with the manifesto et al for the voters to see

2016 - A poll without a manifesto or a credible alternative to the Tories shown as support but doesn't equate to seats in the house.

You see they are different evaluations. We'll see what happens next month and what transpires at the next election but if I was Corbyn I wouldn't be using those undies on the broomstick.

[baldrick]

I'm afraid you just don't get it.

It's you who just don't get it.
People who didn't bother voting because there was little difference between the Conservative Party and the 'pink tories' of New Labour, people who switched to the SNP and UKIP, are now coming back to Labour because they see a leader who is getting back to socialist principles, for the majority not the rich and big business.
Some 300,000 have joined or rejoined the Labour Party since Corbyn was elected last year, It's now the biggest political party in Europe.
If Corbyn is re-elected, and I expect he will be overwhelmingly again, those 172 will have to decide whether they can continue in their self obsessed bubble, ignoring the majority. They were elected as Labour candidates, not for their personal views. If they want to leave the party and stand for the LibDems, Tories or as independents they are unlikely to be re-elected. I can't see many giving up their lucrative careers to do that. Maybe a handful who will end up in the wilderness like the SDP (remember them?).

[Danelectro]

In other European countries they are abandoning the big parties for parties of the left and right. Here Labour can keep them if it takes up their concerns - austerity and cuts. And win the next General Election.

Voters in other European countries won't make any difference to this country, more especially since we are leaving the EU and their political scene becomes more or less irrelevant. The UK will become a partner in the world economy and political scene. Now can you really see belt and braces Corbyn feeling comfortable on the world stage? The concerns of the general public aren't cuts and austerity primarily but immigration and economic stability not borrow, borrow, borrow, until the hinges creak. I think it has been proven time again you cannot manage the economy on borrowing ad infinitum unless you leave a note to say "there's no money left". As for winning the next election, or the one after that, or the one after that not whilst he has a hole in his ar5e.

DV you like many beleive in what is called neo classical economics,we have been living under this theory for 30 odd years and is not the economics that let your generation work its way ouf basic living conditions-that was Keynesian economics and favoured a mixed economy of state and private sector.

Two of the economists advising Labour on policy wrote papers predicting the last financial crash something your neo classical theory could not manage as amongst other factors it does NOT take bank debt into consideration when modeling the economy.

They are arguing to change from an economy dominated by the financial sector to a return to a more mixed economy.Its the sort of thing that faced with the current crisis Roosevelt,Adam Smith or Keynes would be suggesting and its Les Dawson on crack to suggest its trying to create the Soviet Union in the UK....but fine if yer talking shite for laughs.

[jetblack]

They were elected as Labour candidates, not for their personal views.

Completely agree.

In some constituencies you could have put up a Labrador Retriever - and, so long as it stood for Labour, it would have been elected.

Its when the Lab turns round and starts trying to call the shots that it has a big problem.

All this talk of the 172 PLP against Corbyn - lets see how moralistic they are when they are faced with the prospect of having to go out and get a real job.
My gut instinct tells me that the vast majority will fall in line and think themselves lucky.
They'll probably bide their time etc, in the Machiavellian treachorous way that we are growing accustomed to from them - but they will, ultimately, toe the line.

There's nowhere for them to go

[Tman]

A more mixed economy would be good for all concerned, but Corbyn isn't advocating anything like that.
He'd rather waste money (apparently) on tripe like RM and rail renationalisation , foreign aid budgets and the inherent costs of unfettered immigration than invest in the economic future of the UK.
He sees no worth or quality in manufacturing or industry as he sees those "down-trodden masses" who should be free to dance around the maypole and sing a few verses of Kumbayah with the local ethnic minorities (who're also down-trodden, no doubt).
In short, he's a feckin' idiot. A dangerous "I wouldn't press the button" feckin' idiot.
And jet still talks like a two-bob Stalinist.

[dvbuk55]

They were elected as Labour candidates, not for their personal views. Completely agree.

Well if there are 172 Labour PLP members and 40 Corbynista Labour members, which one will form the official opposition? Corbyn can hardly say he has the majority can he, despite having sh1t loads of constituency support because they aren't sat in the house are they. I'm more than confident that the real labour MPs will get rid of the little weasel in time, hopefully sooner rather than later, bearing in mind he'll be gone after the next general election in any case. Then we'll see how his PLP members react when they are out in the cold and meeting in a back street pub in Islington commiserating over how they were misunderstood.

[dvbuk55]

I wonder if the Mayor of London will be at the Corbynista shindig today - probably not as he's come out in favour of Owen. Now there is a man blessed with common sense

[baldrick]

A more mixed economy would be good for all concerned, but Corbyn isn't advocating anything like that.

He sees no worth or quality in manufacturing or industry

Instead of making up your own fantasy version of what Corbyn stands for, perhaps you should read his platform. On jobs and industry:

Full employment and an economy that works for all

We will create a million good quality jobs across our regions and nations and guarantee a decent job for all. by investing £500 billion in infrastructure, manufacturing and new industries backed up by a publicly-owned National Investment Bank and regional banks we will build a high skilled, high tech, low carbon economy that ends austerity and leaves no one and nowhere left behind. We will invest in the high speed broadband, energy, transport and homes that our country needs and allow good businesses to thrive, and support a new generation of co-operative enterprises.

http://www.jeremyforlabour.com/pledges" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Danelectro]

I can understand your need to reform the electoral system, I mean lets keep reforming it until there's a minute chance of Jezza getting elected

While this current lot of disabled baiting scum bags are changing the constiuency boundries and trying to sweep election fraud under the carpet but when ye can get 1 in 4 of the electorate to form a government who gives a f**k.

[Tman]

="baldrick
Instead of making up your own fantasy version of what Corbyn stands for, perhaps you should read his platform. On jobs and industry:

rFull employment and an economy that works for all

We will create a million good quality jobs across our

Blah blah blah. Reality check balders.
Every PM post-war has made much the same promises, and some like Wilson even believed it.
Corbyn hasn't got £500 billion, and if he did, he wouldn't spend it on nasty dirty stuff like industry and manufacturing. That sort of stuff is for the shuffling proles, not Islington fantasists like Corbyn.
He says this sort of thing to hopefully appeal to the traditional Labour voters who still believe that the country has to produce and make to survive, and monies reinvested to further growth, but he's not like that. He's one of the old 1970s school of debating society socialists who believe that money is obtained from "somewhere" and if we run short we should just go and get some more.
The usual fatuous example is "well look at the money they gave to the banks in 2008" as if that's some sort of proof that the government has a large jar of fivers hidden under the floorboards but choose not to spend it.
It's no wonder so many people get taken for a ride by Nigerian scammers, pyramid sales and the like when so many are taken in by this smoke-and-mirrors fraud.

[dvbuk55]

http://www.jeremyforlabour.com/pledges

Well here we are back to the wish list again. I assume you can only pledge something if your in a position to fulfil that pledge, well that's out of the window then. I just bet he'll start his speech today like this "Welcome comrades to wonderland, which we will name never never land when we borrow so much money we'll never never be able to pay it back".

[Danelectro]

I think the RM question sums it up quite well.
Very few employees (mostly working class people) wanted it privatised.
How many employees (mostly working class people) refused the free shares?
How many employees (mostly working class people) would support re-nationalisation if it meant giving up their shares?

Most people are inherently protectionist by nature jet, that doesn't necessarily make them Tory scumbags or selfish right wing nutbags but it does mean they'll instinctively protect what they have, working class people especially since having nothing for a long time makes having something even a little worth holding on to, this is what socialism has to understand, if any policy right or left threatens that people will reject it.

As for the specifics of royal mail for the last 15 years under public ownership the company was run with a private sector ethos, our terms and conditions were eroded and the service had already been under attack so what kind of "'re-nationalisation" is he promising, a return to that, does he have another model of public ownership in mind or as I suspect is he just looking around for something to stick a public ownership label on without any idea of how to actually make it work?

Nice story about ordinary working people defending what they have but why are the majority in my office selling their shares in October? and their nae having much difficulty seeing that it means jack if they lose their job.

Of course Corbyn doesnt know how to run a state owned RM but their are some very clever qualified people in these islands who do and their nae all motivated by a kings ransom and lets get real its not quantum f***ing physics to set new regulation on competition and acess to the network or make savings by shedding a failed management structure.

Also look at how to indroduce green delivery vechiles only in towns and cities as im personally f****d aff pumping fumes into kids faces just because shareholders want increased returns on their investments.I'ts the tax payer that picks up the bill in the end via the NHS budget so the costs are their already.

[baldrick]

This is going viral on social media!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd7LXMJ2SM8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;