Union agrees yet another extension

[borders]

there is always one Dingo , as I have said many times we are lucky to have a Union as bad as it may seem to many people.
the fact is a Union can only do so much, IMO its the system that runs our lives that causes so much more turmoil .

[RTP]

Do we have any news about the progression of the talks, are we there yet ?

^bump

[thelastpostie]

One major issue with indivduals not being allowed to stand for more one term , is that the national officers have a contract of employments. The lead negotiators are the officers , one is appointed the rest are elected. The officers who are elected all had to resign their employment from either Royal Mail or Post Office LTD on election.

Do you really think you would be able to get good indivduals who would stand if after 5 years they did not have a job as they could not stand for election to their own postion.

No other union operates in the way you suggest.

No if you are talking about the executive then the RMT do have a year between there term when they return to their jobbut we do not have a que of people who wish to stand for the PEC so would this really work.Sometimes you do wish those who are always so critical of the union negotiators had an opportunity then sometimes you read their posts and you hear how terrible it is in their offices and you realise that if that is what they stand for in their own offices without striking then perhaps we best not having them negotiate for the UK.

I disagree, their is never a shortage of people wanting to stand for the PEC. Its just that it's strategic and political move whereby regions/divisions, through their respective branches so as to ensure that as far as possible, all regions of the UK are represented. I think you'll find that most, if not all all members of the PEC have all either been Area, Div Reps or Divisional committee chair's.

[Martin Walsh]

The last few years there has not bee a lot of people who want to stand for the PEC that's a fact. There may be a lot of reasons but one is that some from outside London do not want to live in London Monday to Friday, or to travel around the UK.

Now of course you have to have the support of your own branch to stand and you have to rely on the support of other Branch's to get their members to vote for you. Most Branch's will recommend candidates they have seen make a contribution at conference or a briefing or during a dispute or from knowledge of them as a rep.

Tell me where all these reps are that want to stand for the higher positions. My concern is that too many young reps are opting to go into the easier position of a union learning rep as it is not an in your face position as an IR rep is.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk you say I have ingnroance of delivery issues ! I deal with delivery issues every single day , resourcing issues , flex issues , executive action , unfforical walk outs , the unagreed use of the neighbour delivery issues , Christmas arrangements , revisons , the recruitment of part timers without use of the stoke agreement , revisons , the new fad of the blue line leave spread , the unagreed use of the 30 minute flex , MTSF issues arsing from revisons , attempting to make permanent FTCs , issues arising of the attendance procedure along with any other issues in deliveries.

Oh also I have to deal with Mail centre issues , collection best praticise , the issues in the London Airport Mail unit involved in the international review , we have a proposal for a closure of the VOC and RDC and also CIT unit issues including their strike action.

We also have to deal with the Comms and meetings of area reps ect.

Some do it better than others but lets not forget its a role which most people don't desire for a number of reasons the hours are long and the travelling is boring and it plays murders with relationships.

But hey it's easy behind a keyboard to criticise much harder to do the job in the way everyone wants and sadly the job involves telling the members sometimes what they don't want to hear .

Yes it must be a very difficult job and obviously so difficult you want to continue doing it ad infinitum.

The problem is dingo you are overseeing an area with full time employees in the main with a high proportion of union members, now how much more difficult do you think it is in areas that do not have that luxury.

Yes I've been in a job that required long periods of absence where it is difficult to maintain a relationship and travelling too.

Everything in the union garden isn't rosy dingo and there needs to be a reckoning or there won't be a union because apathy is already abroad and you should be thankful people like me can be bothered to criticise.

[dvbuk55]

The last few years there has not bee a lot of people who want to stand for the PEC that's a fact. There may be a lot of reasons but one is that some from outside London do not want to live in London Monday to Friday, or to travel around the UK.

Bet it's not too lucrative either

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk you' keep mentioning full time employment well we have an average of 89% but there are some offices with 60/40 split and yet they are strong and hold their own.

I want a review of the union but not with the gimmicks you mention because they are not going to improve the union at all.

Branch's are too big in some areas and too small in others. We all can name good and bad Branch's but nothing gets done to those who operate badly.

There are loads of reforms we can do but stopping good reps from holding office is not right. Now stopping bad reps we can do something about if there is a desire.

[thelastpostie]

Dingo, You're at the sharp end so you would know better than me. But although they're may not be as many people coming through as in years gone by. Given the amount of people who make up the PEC. I doubt it will have a problem in getting people to offer their names for election anytime soon.

When you say "tell me where all these reps are who want to stand for higher positions" who are you referring to? People wanting to be unit reps, unit who want to be area reps, area rep wanting to be div reps? Do you know how many area, div rep vacancies there are throughout the country? Not many I bet. I would hazard a guess that there are a fair number of delivery office's (may not be the case in London) who don't have a unit rep though. What does that tell you?

[pcb]

I like how some many people on this forum always reckon they can do better, well put up,stand this year wherever you are for unit to area positions. Or put a motion to your AGM and action it or stand in the next national elections!
Incredible that people complain about reps yet don't stand!
Everyone has the chance, everyone has the opportunity to change the system so why don't you?
Democracy at work!
Internet heroes everyone!
Rant over!

[mvinny]

Do we have any news about the progression of the talks, are we there yet ?

It's all gone very quiet!

[thelastpostie]

I like how some many people on this forum always reckon they can do better, well put up,stand this year wherever you are for unit to area positions. Or put a motion to your AGM and action it or stand in the next national elections!
Incredible that people complain about reps yet don't stand!
Everyone has the chance, everyone has the opportunity to change the system so why don't you?
Democracy at work!
Internet heroes everyone!
Rant over!

How do you know people aren't doing what you suggest already? This is a forum where all view's, good, bad or indifferent contend.

[pcb]

Because since I started on this forum 6 years there has been the same internet chatter but no solid move to enact upon the proposals debated on this forum.!!!!!!

[thelastpostie]

Because since I started on this forum 6 years there has been the same internet chatter but no solid move to enact upon the proposals debated on this forum.!!!!!!

Can't be that bad then, you've stuck around for 6 years

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk you' keep mentioning full time employment well we have an average of 89% but there are some offices with 60/40 split and yet they are strong and hold their own.

I want a review of the union but not with the gimmicks you mention because they are not going to improve the union at all.

Branch's are too big in some areas and too small in others. We all can name good and bad Branch's but nothing gets done to those who operate badly.

There are loads of reforms we can do but stopping good reps from holding office is not right. Now stopping bad reps we can do something about if there is a desire.

Dingo I don't want to stop good reps holding office, what I would like to see is a broader spectrum where ex reps help to educate the new and then perhaps return to office at the next election if they stand. As it is you will have a procession of PEC members with walking frames and a bus pass who last worked on the shop floor 40 years before. You don't know if the "gimmicks" will improve the structure or not if you don't try. You say you want to see a review of the union structure and so do I despite your opinion I am a supporter of unionism - but - when things are wrong they are wrong. The example you quote is that bad Branch's are not sanctioned but they should be. Surely there is a method to deal with poor quality within the union, if not, it will bring the whole house down eventually because people will not support them

[dvbuk55]

I like how some many people on this forum always reckon they can do better, well put up,stand this year wherever you are for unit to area positions. Or put a motion to your AGM and action it or stand in the next national elections!
Incredible that people complain about reps yet don't stand!
Everyone has the chance, everyone has the opportunity to change the system so why don't you?
Democracy at work!
Internet heroes everyone!
Rant over!

And a rant is what it is - do you seriously believe it is so easy to climb the union ladder, and even if you did, do you seriously believe your voice would change anything? Because quite clearly, just like politics, there is a union line to follow - remember the last little snippet about the PEC vote which according to one pundit WASN'T unanimous but when published by the union it suddenly became unanimous. So unless you have 20 people like you and all of you miraculously get voted in at the same time you'd be following the party line or at most be a voice in the wilderness.