LTB 688/17 - Executive Summary Update on Talks with Royal Mail Group

ted_e_bear · Post by **ted_e_bear** » 21 Dec 2017, 06:42

Flashman_ wrote:
lee trigger wrote:Just watched the vid and cant help but thinking were going to get stuffed on finish times. Frontline posties to bear the brunt of change again!
That is my conclusion too, and is absolutely not acceptable to me. I cannot work later, end of.

Ditto, got school pickup, no good to me, don't want to be forced out of my job !

Jambomatt1874 · Post by **Jambomatt1874** » 21 Dec 2017, 10:07

So we’ve went from not finishing later and messing about with peoples lives to terry pullinger being a puppet to Royal Mail again and informing us that is likely to happen. Wether it’s 5 mins or 2 hours I’m not interested working later iv got a life. Stand by for being told we’ve got a brilliant deal and we should be happy what we got!!

seaside · Post by **seaside** » 21 Dec 2017, 10:41

Yes starting later will put a lot of us under pressure and maybe having to leave the job. Which is why I say it is the most important issue. It effects full and part timers. If you got children to pick up, last letter at 5pm 4pm or 3:30pm is going to be impossible to do. A lot of part timers are in the job because of the current finishing times.

Strong bull · Post by **Strong bull** » 21 Dec 2017, 12:02

Whistle it doesn't bother me to much finishing later I can understand why a lot of people can't or don't want to.

What makes me laugh is the miserable,hate the job crowd,never worked in the real world,no life outside r/m at our place saying they won't work later are the same ones who do all the o/t and s/a collections until 6.30 pm and moan if there is no o/t available.Work that one out

Post by **Lincox** » 21 Dec 2017, 14:29

There are not too many jobs where you can start early and finish early. Of course there are members who for differing reasons cannot make changes in order to make the school run etc. In most subs the start times are already from 8.00 onwards because the mail does not reach them till that time and later. The finish times are already 3.00pm and beyond and those members who used to start at 6.00am have already had to cope with the changes over the last ten years. What people have to appreciate is that any negotiation is a two way process and that the CWU are negotiating for all of the membership and if they can achieve the bulk of what was asked in The Four Pillars and at the same time bring Royal Mail down in terms of last letter from 5.00 to (2.30-3.30) last letter, then that cannot be seen as failure.

maisymoo04 · Post by **maisymoo04** » 21 Dec 2017, 15:08

Strong bull wrote:Whistle it doesn't bother me to much finishing later I can understand why a lot of people can't or don't want to.

What makes me laugh is the miserable,hate the job crowd,never worked in the real world,no life outside r/m at our place saying they won't work later are the same ones who do all the o/t and s/a collections until 6.30 pm and moan if there is no o/t available.Work that one out

lightningpostman · Post by **lightningpostman** » 22 Dec 2017, 16:00

i would vote no if finish times were extended.

tpost · Post by **tpost** » 23 Dec 2017, 10:05

To be honest I think later start times will come in whether we like it or not. The CWU will have to compromise somewhere and if the rest of the deal is ok I cannot see us being called out on strike over it. Can you imagine going on strike because you have to work until 5pm, the general public will laugh at us.

Post by **Lincox** » 23 Dec 2017, 16:08

You are probably right. I do however think that Royal Mail and CWU have to consider the dangers of postman delivering in the dark and also the dangers of being out too long in extremely warm conditions.
There should be a complete rethink on when mail is sorted in Delivery Offices in order that delivery danger times can be avoided as far as possible. For instance during the summer why is it not possible to return to the delivery office after say 3 hours delivery, and sort D2Ds, Second Class, Mailsort etc for the following day and then finish off delivery, hence giving you time out of the sun, time to have a decent break and to rehydrate the body.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 23 Dec 2017, 16:21

Lincox wrote:You are probably right. I do however think that Royal Mail and CWU have to consider the dangers of postman delivering in the dark and also the dangers of being out too long in extremely warm conditions.
There should be a complete rethink on when mail is sorted in Delivery Offices in order that delivery danger times can be avoided as far as possible. For instance during the summer why is it not possible to return to the delivery office after say 3 hours delivery, and sort D2Ds, Second Class, Mailsort etc for the following day and then finish off delivery, hence giving you time out of the sun, time to have a decent break and to rehydrate the body.

The 2C and Mailsort will be due for delivery that day

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 23 Dec 2017, 16:50

tpost wrote:To be honest I think later start times will come in whether we like it or not. The CWU will have to compromise somewhere and if the rest of the deal is ok I cannot see us being called out on strike over it. Can you imagine going on strike because you have to work until 5pm, the general public will laugh at us.

The CWU have already compromised on the pension with a 'wage in retirement' pension' instead of the full caboodle defined benefit pension that we were originally getting. The CWU agree with re-designing the operational pipeline, so they agree with the cost cutting necessary and replacing staff with machines which can do all the work in processing. The Union also appear to agree with bigger outdoor delivery spans which is why they are proposing a shorter working week. Bigger outdoor spans will benefit Royal Mail because they won't have to employ as many delivery staff.

I can also see us becoming a laughing stock with the general public if we are out delivering till 5pm with torches trying not to trip up on icy pavements whilst holding 3 bundles in one hand and a PDA in the other. Our finish times should reflect what time the mail comes in at our delivery centres, so if the second wave of mail is regularly coming in at 7.30am, why on earth should we be working 9 till 5pm?? Surely thats what the investment in automation is for1 - to speed up the process of getting posties out on delivery, not slow it down!!

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 23 Dec 2017, 16:57

SpacePhoenix wrote:
Lincox wrote:You are probably right. I do however think that Royal Mail and CWU have to consider the dangers of postman delivering in the dark and also the dangers of being out too long in extremely warm conditions.
There should be a complete rethink on when mail is sorted in Delivery Offices in order that delivery danger times can be avoided as far as possible. For instance during the summer why is it not possible to return to the delivery office after say 3 hours delivery, and sort D2Ds, Second Class, Mailsort etc for the following day and then finish off delivery, hence giving you time out of the sun, time to have a decent break and to rehydrate the body.
The 2C and Mailsort will be due for delivery that day

We know thanks, but that kind of misses his point doesn't it.

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 23 Dec 2017, 16:59

postslippete wrote: so if the second wave of mail is regularly coming in at 7.30am, why on earth should we be working 9 till 5pm?? Surely thats what the investment in automation is for1 - to speed up the process of getting posties out on delivery, not slow it down!!

No - automation is to do away with wages, holidays, sick pay and pensions.
You have also not understood that there won't be a "second" wave under their plans.

I don't understand this obsession with 3 bundles.
If they do what they propose - you will still only have 1 bundle and a few missorts.
You would have to be stupid to carry 3 bundles.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 23 Dec 2017, 17:14

clashcityrocker wrote:
postslippete wrote: so if the second wave of mail is regularly coming in at 7.30am, why on earth should we be working 9 till 5pm?? Surely thats what the investment in automation is for1 - to speed up the process of getting posties out on delivery, not slow it down!!
No - automation is to do away with wages, holidays, sick pay and pensions.
You have also not understood that there won't be a "second" wave under their plans.

I don't understand this obsession with 3 bundles.
If they do what they propose - you will still only have 1 bundle and a few missorts.
You would have to be stupid to carry 3 bundles.

What about when a sequencing plan gets run again? If the second wave was done away with then you could end up easily with 20+ boxes of manual

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 23 Dec 2017, 17:29

clashcityrocker wrote:
postslippete wrote: so if the second wave of mail is regularly coming in at 7.30am, why on earth should we be working 9 till 5pm?? Surely thats what the investment in automation is for1 - to speed up the process of getting posties out on delivery, not slow it down!!
No - automation is to do away with wages, holidays, sick pay and pensions.
You have also not understood that there won't be a "second" wave under their plans.

I don't understand this obsession with 3 bundles.
If they do what they propose - you will still only have 1 bundle and a few missorts.
You would have to be stupid to carry 3 bundles.

I know there won't be a second wave under their plans!! What I was pointing out was the fact that if our 2nd wave comes at 7.30, why can't one wave of mech turn up at 7.30? Would that not be possible if Royal Mail invested in more CSS machines and staff??

Why is automation to do away with wages, holidays, sick pay and pensions????