Nicola fancies another Scottish referendum...

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 17 Mar 2017, 19:33

Scotland can do what it wants. One does wonder how would Scotland possibly expect free trade to continue with the rest of Britain (which they do most of) if they joined the EU and bound by their rules and regulations?? And what of the open border with England??

Darren Bent · Post by **Darren Bent** » 17 Mar 2017, 20:26

It is too complicated leaving Europe without Scottish demand adding more complications. Can't see it happening. Nicola should use her energy to make it work for Britain and Scotland.

Post by **osgoody1970** » 17 Mar 2017, 20:35

apparently, the scots could be running a decefit of 11-15 billion if they were to be independent, 9% of there GDP, the European union do not let any country in with a defecit of above 3%, the oil money, some would say, will never reach the giddy heights of 100 dollars a barrel again, I hope the SNP make the financial argument no 1 in the forthcoming debate!!! because I cannot see how Scotland can be better off going it alone!!! and I aint even mentioned the BARNETT formula!!!

JKSmudge · Post by **JKSmudge** » 17 Mar 2017, 21:02

One thing I am sure of - I am fed up with the amount of times the SNP appear on BBC question time among others. If an English nationalist group raises it's head above the parapet, they are shot-down as 'racists'. Seems the SNP have one thing in common with the EU - they want repeated referendums until the 'correct' result is achieved. Have anothr referendum AFTER Brexit, think the country has enough on it's plate for the next 2 years....

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 18 Mar 2017, 10:45

Something that's never explained by the SNP and those who seem to yearn for an independent Scotland is the paradox of wanting to break with a 300 year old union of four countries (on the apparent basis of not being "independent" enough, even though there's very strong representation in Westminster and many devolved powers) but then openly stating the desire to instantly join another union of 27 countries where representation will be weak and patchy at best, and non-existent at worst.
Does wee Jimmy believe that an independent Scotland would somehow slide into the seat still warm from the recently departed UK's position, and take up the mantle, position and powers too?
If the EU even exists if/when Scotland get to join it will be a very different organisation to the existing one, and clearly the days of the financial largesse to the "poorer" member states (Newspeak?) will be long over.
Watching what's being said in the media it seems Wee Jimmy has not played her only card at the most opportune time, and already there's a strong groundswell against another Indyref or independence for the foreseeable.
The most telling comment came from some SNP supporter who said another two years + of political manouvering in Scotland was bad all round, as apart from the ill-feeling generated in the minds of the voting public, post independence there would need to be inward investment, and who would ever do that after years of political instability on show to the rest of the world?
Like all single-minded nationalists, nothing matters other than the pursuit of independence, and while it's a noble aim for some down-trodden Third World countries, in this case it just makes the SNP look increasingly desperate and somewhat shoddy manipulators.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 18 Mar 2017, 13:20

I think it's important if there is going to be a second referendum that both sides attempt to argue the positive sides of either continuing with the union or those of self determination. I think we're all sick of both versions of "project fear".

What we do know is that the status quo is no longer an option, Brexit means that no matter how Scotland votes we will all be entering a political and economic unknown. It would perhaps help the Union's cause if someone could actually give us a clue what the post Brexit landscape might genuinely look like rather than this rose tinted 1950s style nirvana that charlatans like Farage are promoting.

If the Union is to stay intact Labour must play a large part in convincing Scots that they can provide a viable opposition to the unrepresentative (in Scotland) Tory party. One of the biggest drivers for independence is the fully justified feeling that we may be facing another 20 years of Tory rule pulling the UK into a deep spiral of right-wing isolationist policies. A Tory party drifting further from the centre ground with each passing day and completely without any effective checks and balances.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 18 Mar 2017, 13:38

Farage, as far as I'm aware, has never promised any Nirvana; his stance was always to take back "power" from unelected Brussels bureaucrats and return it to Westminster, but now you mention it, Oily and jimmy have long promised an independent Scotland vibrant and optimistic, oil revenues a-plenty and happily trading etc with the EU.

I guess some will believe that one too.
You want a campaign truthful and free from insults and all the other silly bollix?
We saw how divisive it could get on here and in obscure Scottish towns on a Saturday afternoon. Given the quarrelsome nature of the average Celt you think this time would be any different?

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 18 Mar 2017, 16:08

It's ok Tman, I know you can't help the abusive, patronising and childish nature of your posts, I'm sure there's probably a name for it like a form of literary Tourette's syndrome. You should try reading them back and think how calling people "sweaty socks", "Wee Jimmy Krankie" and "Oily" looks to the grown ups.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 18 Mar 2017, 17:07

fishtank wrote:It's ok Tman, I know you can't help the abusive, patronising and childish nature of your posts, I'm sure there's probably a name for it like a form of literary Tourette's syndrome. You should try reading them back and think how calling people "sweaty socks", "Wee Jimmy Krankie" and "Oily" looks to the grown ups.

Been there, got the T-shirt FT

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 18 Mar 2017, 17:13

I'm sure you'll forgive me Fishy.
Hey, you're not one of those snowflakes who feel the need to hide away from any nastiness, are you? Perhaps while you're hiding away from the nasty world next time you could ponder on the inherent irony in being pejorative about posters being pejorative?
That said, you do use the old "oh you're so rude" ethic as a reason for not continuing the debate/answering questions.

Meant to add...love Wee Jimmy's new hair cut. Is it done in an attempt to appeal to Rab C's friends and relatives?

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 18 Mar 2017, 17:58

Been there, got the T-shirt FT

Hope it's transparent jet. Wouldn't want anything clashing...

Post by **Godric** » 19 Mar 2017, 00:41

latest Com Res poll 48% for indyref2 44% against and 8% undecided

YouGov
SNP on 51% up 3%
Tories on 24% down 1/%
Labour 14% down 1%
Lib Dems 6% unchanged
Scottish Green 4% up 1%

... so the pro yes parties are on 55%

May knows she can't win the game changer is the 200K Eu citizens and the 350K 16-17 year olds from 2014 the most pro EU group that is why Theresa May and the unionists are absolutely petrified

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 19 Mar 2017, 18:24

They are? It really doesn't show.

The classic Net ploy of picking the survey showing the results you wish to believe, and presenting that as fact.
It seems many Scots are far from happy with another two years of infighting and uncertainty, so wait until the SNP's grand flourish is forgotten and reality bites, and then see how Wee Jimmy is perceived.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 19 Mar 2017, 20:32

Tman wrote:The classic Net ploy of picking the survey showing the results you wish to believe, and presenting that as fact.

It seems many Scots are far from happy with another two years of infighting and uncertainty,

It seems.....It seems?
How many Scots did you ask or are you basing that on a particular survey showing the results you wish to believe?
It's a ridiculous statement to make in the first place, what was the question?, who asked it?, what do you think we're going to witness from Westminster in the next two, three or how ever many years it takes to disentangle ourselves from the EU?...infighting and uncertainty that will make the Scottish parliament look like a 1960s hippie commune perhaps?

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 19 Mar 2017, 20:56

Yes..it seems it seems.
There's been enough Scots interviewed (wall-to-wall pretty much over the last few days) and if you wish to believe that they broadcast the only people who happened to say that they really weren't impressed with the SNP and another divisive referendum plus a random selection of people who agreed with it, then you're into Trump's fake news territory.
The bitterness won't be in Holyrood, it'll be Scottish citizens. I'm sure those No voters recall being "crowded" and physically intimidated by Saltire-waving tartan-clutchers and still recall that unpleasantness on show last time.