D2D Rip off subject

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 20 Mar 2016, 19:11

Pidleypoo wrote:I have complained about this at all levels up to about area rep level and they all agree but still nothing has been done. I've also said I would either assist or be a h&s rep and again nothing. As for everyone else they do agree but most people dare not rock the boat but for a few others.its a major issue and as a business and workforce we could be putting our jobs at risk long term and with longer deliveries possibly it's even more so. Also apologies for taking the original post in this direction but I do think all parts of what we do affect us all and we shouldn't compromise on our health in this way

Well said don't apologies for making comments on here for you have highlighted the problems we all face in the day to day running of this farcical company nothing gets done until you complain yet you get labelled a troublemaker but save the business the cost of sick pay and a HSE fine while the management eat cakes and don'f give a f**k!

Exrep · Post by **Exrep** » 21 Mar 2016, 16:12

They did make £1 billion last year on D2DS

lostinthepost · Post by **lostinthepost** » 21 Mar 2016, 17:12

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:
lilymccafferty wrote:The past 4weeks our office has had 6-7-7-7 D2D why mail centre workers and others alike who don't have to deliver them get the payment I and many others are suffering from the stress and strains enough would like to know from OUR union WHY was this deal done so underhanded why didn't the people who actually have to deliver them not get to vote on this selfish deed you are taking money from the people who deliver them but what would you do if the people you betrayed stopped there union due's
How many times do we have to do this.

1. I don't think the Del Supplement solution was the correct one, but it was the least worst of those available.

2. No one gets paid for D2Ds its absorbed into the workload.

3. Delivery Supplement is only paid to those who work in delivery (MCs get their own less generous supplement £8 at the start).

4. With 100,000 members in Delivery we effectively voted this in ourselves either by voting yes or not voting at all. Delivery are the largest section in the Union. Within RM we are the largest by 3 or 4 times. In the Union as a whole (including BT, Vodaphone and the others) deliveries are only outnumbered by a few thousand. Delivery has the biggest muscle in the Union, we just don't use that muscle enough.

So, have you got the figures on what percentage of RM staff work in delivery against those who dont? Because I would imagine that every single person who ISNT in delivery would have voted yes to free money.

Also, when you consider that not every member on delivery takes d2ds (drivers, phgs indoor staff) it's not hard to see why this vote passed.

It was a loaded vote from the start and it was absolutely scandalous that the union pushed a ballot to many of its members on issues that had no bearing on their pay packets or future workload.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 21 Mar 2016, 17:37

Did you ignore the bit about 100,000 members in delivery. With only just under 200,00 in the Union and only 135,000 eligible to vote - its pretty clear that a majority of delivery staff voted the deal in, We did it to ourselves.

At the danger of sounding pompous I'll quote myself: http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 00#p725242" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The only people who get a Delivery Supplement are those within the Delivery Function. In my office Collection, only staff don't get it.

Now if by "Indoor staff" you mean Callers, DOM Support and Locker - well in every individual DO they are outnumbered by Outside Workers so they couldn't tip the balance from a No to a Yes unless more than 50% of the office also voted with them.

However, if by Indoor staff you mean MC workers. Well, unfortunately even that doesn't work. With well over 100,000 members working in this part of the Royal mail business (Delivery), it remains the single largest group of members within the CWU.

The CWU has 199,443 members, if they were all allowed to vote on an agreement Solidarity within the Delivery Function would ALWAYS carry the vote.

Do I agree with the delivery supplement and the change to D2D payments - No - I voted against the 2010 Agreement that introduced it, I still think it was wrong. But people who agree with me have to stop peddling this line that it was voted in by "Indoor Staff" - it wasn't. It was accepted largely because members decided not to return their ballot papers, and for those that did, even in Deliveries, a Majority of them voted Yes.

117,000 ballots were sent out of which 100,000 were in delivery (see above). If all the 17,000 others voted Yes - you would still need 25,000 in delivery to support them to reach the total Yes votes of 42,023. In fact, only 21,820 voted No (I was one).

So even in Delivery in the best case scenario, the "No's" were out voted by 3,000. The simple reason, if there was one, why 2010 got accepted, it was because Delivery members didn't take the time to return their ballot papers even though it was as easy as dropping it on the IPS frame at work.

lostinthepost · Post by **lostinthepost** » 21 Mar 2016, 18:52

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:Did you ignore the bit about 100,000 members in delivery. With only just under 200,00 in the Union and only 135,000 eligible to vote - its pretty clear that a majority of delivery staff voted the deal in, We did it to ourselves.

At the danger of sounding pompous I'll quote myself: http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 00#p725242" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The only people who get a Delivery Supplement are those within the Delivery Function. In my office Collection, only staff don't get it.

Now if by "Indoor staff" you mean Callers, DOM Support and Locker - well in every individual DO they are outnumbered by Outside Workers so they couldn't tip the balance from a No to a Yes unless more than 50% of the office also voted with them.

However, if by Indoor staff you mean MC workers. Well, unfortunately even that doesn't work. With well over 100,000 members working in this part of the Royal mail business (Delivery), it remains the single largest group of members within the CWU.

The CWU has 199,443 members, if they were all allowed to vote on an agreement Solidarity within the Delivery Function would ALWAYS carry the vote.

Do I agree with the delivery supplement and the change to D2D payments - No - I voted against the 2010 Agreement that introduced it, I still think it was wrong. But people who agree with me have to stop peddling this line that it was voted in by "Indoor Staff" - it wasn't. It was accepted largely because members decided not to return their ballot papers, and for those that did, even in Deliveries, a Majority of them voted Yes.

117,000 ballots were sent out of which 100,000 were in delivery (see above). If all the 17,000 others voted Yes - you would still need 25,000 in delivery to support them to reach the total Yes votes of 42,023. In fact, only 21,820 voted No (I was one).

So even in Delivery in the best case scenario, the "No's" were out voted by 3,000. The simple reason, if there was one, why 2010 got accepted, it was because Delivery members didn't take the time to return their ballot papers even though it was as easy as dropping it on the IPS frame at work.

I didn't ignore anything. I asked if you knew the percentage of delivery staff vs those who aren't, not the number of staff in delivery.

I also said it was a loaded vote. By which, I mean a percentage of staff were eligible to vote on matters in which any vote other than yes would have been nonsensical. There can be no debate WHY those members voted yes.

To use smaller numbers, if 12 members were allowed to vote and 3 were definitely yes because there was no downside, you would only require 3 of the remaining 9 to garner 50% of the vote.

THAT isn't a democratic vote.

I'm sure you will pull me on these figures but you can apply whatever numbers you like. A percentage of the vote was an untouchable head start for the "yes" vote. That much is clear.

And as clear as the reasons for *some* unaffected staff to absolutely vote yes, we have the very muddied waters of why *some* delivery staff also voted that way. Union pressure and scaremongering to name but a few.

This was a stitch up from the beginning and our union was, as it is now, totally inadequate in representing its members in a fair and equal way.

Spartacus · Post by **Spartacus** » 21 Mar 2016, 19:04

While we're on the subject of D2D , why don't part timers get paid the same as full time...........................................................

Someone had to bring it up.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 21 Mar 2016, 20:13

care to entertain that one teebs

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 22 Mar 2016, 18:55

daveyeff wrote:care to entertain that one teebs

No we are so......................

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 22 Mar 2016, 19:05

but i do feel a song coming on

PaulyQ · Post by **PaulyQ** » 31 Mar 2016, 00:12

Just to add a bit of fuel to fire, when a lino has to take out mail, they don't get paid supplement for taking out D2D as posties do, so they pull them.

Seen it happen and asked the question.

Great way of setting an example eh!!

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 31 Mar 2016, 06:57

PaulyQ wrote:Just to add a bit of fuel to fire, when a lino has to take out mail, they don't get paid supplement for taking out D2D as posties do, so they pull them.

Seen it happen and asked the question.

Great way of setting an example eh!!

No one gets paid for taking out d2ds, it got rolled into the delivery suppliment

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 31 Mar 2016, 07:06

SpacePhoenix wrote:
PaulyQ wrote:Just to add a bit of fuel to fire, when a lino has to take out mail, they don't get paid supplement for taking out D2D as posties do, so they pull them.

Seen it happen and asked the question.

Great way of setting an example eh!!
No one gets paid for taking out d2ds, it got rolled into the delivery suppliment

It's best to call it "delivery office supplement" as even calling it just delivery supplement confuses some who think it's now for delivery of d2d!

psyCrowe · Post by **psyCrowe** » 31 Mar 2016, 08:35

If it's not for D2D, then what is it?
We stopped getting payments for D2D after the agreement, and it was a standard payment of £10 something that replaced it.
I was under the impression that everyone gets this "delivery supplement" , at the expense of front line staff losing out on D2D payments?

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 31 Mar 2016, 08:42

psyCrowe wrote:If it's not for D2D, then what is it?
We stopped getting payments for D2D after the agreement, and it was a standard payment of £10 something that replaced it.
I was under the impression that everyone gets this "delivery supplement" , at the expense of front line staff losing out on D2D payments?

Only delivery staff get the delivery supplement, is MC staff have our own separate supplement. Don't know if logsitics, admin or MDECs have their own

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 31 Mar 2016, 08:49

psyCrowe wrote:If it's not for D2D, then what is it?
We stopped getting payments for D2D after the agreement, and it was a standard payment of £10 something that replaced it.
I was under the impression that everyone gets this "delivery supplement" , at the expense of front line staff losing out on D2D payments?

it wasn't at the expense of d2d payments, at the time of negotiations rm were scrapping d2d payments altogether, the union managed to secure the money that used to fund d2d payments and pushed to create the delivery office supplement which is what the money is now used for, d2d payments were stopping regardless as far as rm were concerned

the payment is now for working in a delivery office and has nothing what so ever to do with d2d