No agreement So where is the Second ballot ?

[Glenno]

what do ya think Martin, open up and give us a clue, after all this is a forum..

[chrisj]

sorry glenno, what boycott? do you mean competitors mail/dsa?

i don't know anymore - too tired to think straight... whatever, really! the issue in delivery will still be more about how we cooperate with the Union and each other - sigh!

[UnhappyGremlin]

I think the union has always held the position that the second ballot would be held AFTER a strike had occurred.
I think they will announce that ballot if there is no agreement by the 13th November, as well as a strike day.

But, I have to say, I personally think they should have begun this ballot already.

[Martin Walsh]

It is quite simple why the union has not announced the other ballots, Royal Mail made a number of significant concessions and committed to further talks on all issues in return for the union suspending the action. They gave a 7 day extension on the ballot they would not have made the concessions if the union said they were at the same time balloting on action short of a strike. There would not have been a joint statement.

Talks this week have progressed well on pensions , the legal guarantees , the charter and industrial stability. Both sides have had their legal teams in the room drafting some of the guarantees. On delivery we have made slow progress and have not made any progress on resourcing. equally on processing , network we have not made the progress we thought we would have.

Talks resume Sunday and the PEC will meet at the hotel in Windsor where the negotiations are to get an update and decide the course of action. Options open to name a strike , a further 7 day extension or partly activate the ballot.

The CWU want a deal , the best deal but does the deal get better with announcing a strike or do Royal Mail concede more against the threat and the pressure from amazon etc. remember once the strike is announced some will go to alternative providers.

[fishtank]

Options open to name a strike , a further 7 day extension or partly activate the ballot.

There are only two options,name a strike date or forget about it and the second ballot,the whole lot.It would be difficult but not impossible to get the membership to respond to a call now,It will not happen if the strike is further delayed,taking it almost into December.
That's no secret,anyone with any sense knows that.

If the major issues are surrounding the business application of existing agreements and their inability or unwillingness to accept failures in their own command and control structures we could strike for a year and still be at square one.The blame for the failure to properly monitor the application of BT2010 and P&M 2007 lies at many doors.

[Son Of God]

Another 7 day extension? Then what? If a deal comes out of this, we vote, how long will all this take? And how close to christmas will this take us? Too bloody close is the obvious answer!

RM are playing the same game they always play. It's time we as a Union lead.

[cloherty1976]

Talks this week have progressed well on pensions , the legal guarantees , the charter and industrial stability. Both sides have had their legal teams in the room drafting some of the guarantees. On delivery we have made slow progress and have not made any progress on resourcing. equally on processing , network we have not made the progress we thought we would have.

Talks resume Sunday and the PEC will meet at the hotel in Windsor where the negotiations are to get an update and decide the course of action. Options open to name a strike , a further 7 day extension or partly activate the ballot.

The union put up a letter in January that there were to be no more talks on network so now it's November. Personally i don't think you talk the same language so what is the point in still talking. The payrise is good and they have employed a lot of new drivers so I would have thought job security is quite good. Also it can mean more union members on the union side. They will just bring in new duties like the last pay deal by executive action if you don't do a deal.

[falkor]

The union put up a letter in January that there were to be no more talks on network so now it's November. Personally i don't think you talk the same language so what is the point in still talking. The payrise is good and they have employed a lot of new drivers so I would have thought job security is quite good. Also it can mean more union members on the union side. They will just bring in new duties like the last pay deal by executive action if you don't do a deal.

Our job security may be OK but our T&C's will be under threat, we are now in the private sector and our competitors pay is nowhere the same as we earn.
I was recently speaking to a TNT Artic driver at a customer collection and he told me that they are on £8 to £9 pounds an hour, we are earning £16 to £17 pounds per hour, I can't see that being allowed to continue for too long, RM's 7.5 Ton drivers earn more than that, The union have done brilliantly to get us these T&C's but I think they will have there work cut out to keep them.

If RM go to overlay and implement Network13 it would be inflammatory and met with guaranteed IA, so I believe RM do want a negotiated settlement.

[cloherty1976]

The union put up a letter in January that there were to be no more talks on network so now it's November. Personally i don't think you talk the same language so what is the point in still talking. The payrise is good and they have employed a lot of new drivers so I would have thought job security is quite good. Also it can mean more union members on the union side. They will just bring in new duties like the last pay deal by executive action if you don't do a deal.

Our job security may be OK but our T&C's will be under threat, we are now in the private sector and our competitors pay is nowhere the same as we earn.
I was recently speaking to a TNT Artic driver at a customer collection and he told me that they are on £8 to £9 pounds an hour, we are earning £16 to £17 pounds per hour, I can't see that being allowed to continue for too long, RM's 7.5 Ton drivers earn more than that, The union have done brilliantly to get us these T&C's but I think they will have there work cut out to keep them.

If RM go to overlay and implement Network13 it would be inflammatory and met with guaranteed IA, so I believe RM do want a negotiated settlement.

Sorry they are on more than that as if they did a 36 hour week they would only earn £324 before tax. They earn more than that. I do not dispute we are on better terms thanks to the union..

[fishtank]

Sorry they are on more than that as if they did a 36 hour week they would only earn £324 before tax. They earn more than that. I do not dispute we are on better terms thanks to the union..

A quick scan of the internet will tell you that the average pay for HGV 1 is around £10-£11 per hour with night trunking a little higher at £12-£13.
I even spotted a tanker driver job at £10 - £11 per hour which is frightening.
The biggest issue though seems to be the fact that almost every single job out there is agency.
That's a real problem for younger guys with family commitments because the work is unpredictable and could take you anywhere.

[falkor]

We have had class 1 agency drivers in our yard that have been paid minimum wage at some companies.

[pants123]

thanks Dingo for your much appreciated info...

[aiden01]

Options open to name a strike , a further 7 day extension or partly activate the ballot.

There are only two options,name a strike date or forget about it and the second ballot,the whole lot.It would be difficult but not impossible to get the membership to respond to a call now,It will not happen if the strike is further delayed,taking it almost into December.
That's no secret,anyone with any sense knows that.

If the major issues are surrounding the business application of existing agreements and their inability or unwillingness to accept failures in their own command and control structures we could strike for a year and still be at square one.The blame for the failure to properly monitor the application of BT2010 and P&M 2007 lies at many doors.

if a further extension is called for I think union will be in deep s..t gone on too long now ffs.