holiday

[char1ie]

Spouting about the National agreement is the RM's weapon of choice. CWU usually appear toothless when that phrase is used.

[chrisj]

Spouting about the National agreement is the RM's weapon of choice. CWU usually appear toothless when that phrase is used.

With this particular issue, I think it is more to do with the Union or local arrangements. I do not think the manager will argue if the workplace is adhering to the National Agreement on Holidays? Why should they care about seniority?

However, I agree that sometimes a lot is made of National Agreement when in reality RM or the Union do not adhere to such agreements.

[Judgee]

if this process is so unfair then have the senior postmen never been at the bottom
oh of course everybody wants all the benefits straight away
what about rewards for long service such as seniority
we have all been there
suck it up and wait your turn for seniority

Thats not exactly a helpful response. I've been a postie for over 5 years, so hardly a noobie.

I had a feeling that seniority was wrong.

At five years you are still a noobie! It's funny how the people that think seniority is unfair is always the people that it doesn't suit?!

You are right of course, if someone has popped out a few kids then they have every right to jump the queue and pick and choose thier holidays!

[clashcityrocker]

At five years you are still a noobie! It's funny how the people that think seniority is unfair is always the people that it doesn't suit?!

5 minutes, 5 years or 50 years - it doesn't matter.
The Way Forward agreement clearly states that seniority is no longer to be used for holiday allocation.
We, the union members, agreed to this. It is a national agreement that nobody should be allowed to deviate from.

[char1ie]

if this process is so unfair then have the senior postmen never been at the bottom
oh of course everybody wants all the benefits straight away
what about rewards for long service such as seniority
we have all been there
suck it up and wait your turn for seniority

Thats not exactly a helpful response. I've been a postie for over 5 years, so hardly a noobie.

I had a feeling that seniority was wrong.

At five years you are still a noobie! It's funny how the people that think seniority is unfair is always the people that it doesn't suit?!

You are right of course, if someone has popped out a few kids then they have every right to jump the queue and pick and choose thier holidays!

That just makes you sound like someone who looks down on those who have less experience than yourself. But when it come to strike action you would expect people like me to stand by your side. Well think again if thats the attitude to noobies like me.

[Judgee]

At five years you are still a noobie! It's funny how the people that think seniority is unfair is always the people that it doesn't suit?!

5 minutes, 5 years or 50 years - it doesn't matter.
The Way Forward agreement clearly states that seniority is no longer to be used for holiday allocation.
We, the union members, agreed to this. It is a national agreement that nobody should be allowed to deviate from.

Ok Clash then how should it be allocated? People with kids first then people with elderly relatives followed by those with lots of pets?!

Seniority is still used in most offices as there is no fairer way. In my office it is seniority one year followed by Juniority the second year and this is about as fair as you can get.

"That just makes you sound like someone who looks down on those who have less experience than yourself. But when it come to strike action you would expect people like me to stand by your side. Well think again if thats the attitude to noobies like me."

I don't look down on you Charlie or anyone with less seniority, I do laugh at them when they start demanding perks as if having kids means they are entitled to a better choice in life than those without.

I don't expect you to stand on the picket line either. That is your choice and you are not doing it for me you are doing it for yourself!

[P13]

At five years you are still a noobie! It's funny how the people that think seniority is unfair is always the people that it doesn't suit?!

5 minutes, 5 years or 50 years - it doesn't matter.
The Way Forward agreement clearly states that seniority is no longer to be used for holiday allocation.
We, the union members, agreed to this. It is a national agreement that nobody should be allowed to deviate from.

Ok Clash then how should it be allocated? People with kids first then people with elderly relatives followed by those with lots of pets?!

Seniority is still used in most offices as there is no fairer way. In my office it is seniority one year followed by Juniority the second year and this is about as fair as you can get.

"That just makes you sound like someone who looks down on those who have less experience than yourself. But when it come to strike action you would expect people like me to stand by your side. Well think again if thats the attitude to noobies like me."

I don't look down on you Charlie or anyone with less seniority, I do laugh at them when they start demanding perks as if having kids means they are entitled to a better choice in life than those without.

I don't expect you to stand on the picket line either. That is your choice and you are not doing it for me you are doing it for yourself!

Holidays should be allocated on a rotational basis

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Ours is allocated by everyone choosing their holidays at the same time. Then if there is an oversubscribed week people will voluntarily move weeks IF THEY WISH to. If there is still an oversubscription (which has not happened as far as I am aware) the manager has always said that names will be put into a hat so everyone remaining has equal chance.

No seniority, no favoritism, no family friendly or other bias. Might not be for every unit, and might not comply with the relevant agreements, but it works for us.

[clashcityrocker]

Ok Clash then how should it be allocated? People with kids first then people with elderly relatives followed by those with lots of pets?!

Seniority is still used in most offices as there is no fairer way.

Firstly have you read the appropriate section in The Way Forward?
Do you agree we have a National Agreement that states seniority is not to be used?

Secondly, as you seem to have an in depth knowledge of this, exactly how many offices still use seniority?
Please inform us how many offices there are and how many are using seniority. I assume "most" will mean over 50%.

Organise your holidays as you like = rotational blocks/seniority followed by reverse seniority/ whatever.
But don't break the national agreements when it suits you, unless you are prepared to watch your managers break them whenever it suits them.

[chrisj]

The bloke is not demanding perks, but just want a fair system. The system you have highlighted is fair but that is not what is practised at the poster's office. He only wants to know that he will get some school holidays - maybe not this year but at least some time in the future...

I think it is unfair to label more junior folks with kids as asking for unreasonable perks.

I like the word juniority - made up.

[knackeredjointsRUS]

Seniority has cost me my duty of 11 years, I have 16 years and the guy that asked for it has 30+ years ( there was no re-sign or anything he had just had enough of his delivery and wanted a change ?? ) and it has well and truly p***ed me right off. In my eyes it can be deemed a form of discrimination BUT the problem is what other way can be used ?? Every single year it's the same people who have the summer months off.. week after xmas off.. etc etc and funny enough every time this is questioned the same word appears time and time again " SENIORITY "
Ps... the guy that took over my duty with more ' seniority ' goes past me on a regular basis and rubs it in ...w***er.

[char1ie]

I lost out to picking summer holidays last year because of seniority first and its happening again for next years allocation.
Having kids is irrelevant even if someone assumes that I think it should be my God given right to jump the queue. 5 years or 25 years. I should be given same opportunity holiday wise as everyone else.
Glad the posties in my DO don't have the attitude of 'screw you Jack, I'm all right' as has been expressed on here.

[fishtank]

Seniority has cost me my duty of 11 years, I have 16 years and the guy that asked for it has 30+ years ( there was no re-sign or anything he had just had enough of his delivery and wanted a change ?? )

What agreement was that from?...it's bollocks.
Where's the rep?
More random words.

[Judgee]

Ok Clash then how should it be allocated? People with kids first then people with elderly relatives followed by those with lots of pets?!

Seniority is still used in most offices as there is no fairer way.

Firstly have you read the appropriate section in The Way Forward?
Do you agree we have a National Agreement that states seniority is not to be used?

Secondly, as you seem to have an in depth knowledge of this, exactly how many offices still use seniority?
Please inform us how many offices there are and how many are using seniority. I assume "most" will mean over 50%.

Organise your holidays as you like = rotational blocks/seniority followed by reverse seniority/ whatever.
But don't break the national agreements when it suits you, unless you are prepared to watch your managers break them whenever it suits them.

No I haven't studied the way forward agreement and have never claimed to have an indepth knowledge of it. I am going by what many posters on here have posted over the years about the use of seniority in thier offices just as you sum up your opinions from what you read/see on here and other posties you speak to no doubt when you are out and about. Do you know how many offices are not breaking agreements? I could run an official survey but I don't have the time and really can't be arsed!

National agreements are being broken left/right and centre as we speak so don't make out that they are followed to the letter in every office. Again I do not have offical figures, very sorry about that I thought these were forums for opinions not leagally binding statements!

So Clash what way should holidays be allocated you are the expert after all?

[Judgee]

Seniority has cost me my duty of 11 years, I have 16 years and the guy that asked for it has 30+ years ( there was no re-sign or anything he had just had enough of his delivery and wanted a change ?? ) and it has well and truly p***ed me right off. In my eyes it can be deemed a form of discrimination BUT the problem is what other way can be used ?? Every single year it's the same people who have the summer months off.. week after xmas off.. etc etc and funny enough every time this is questioned the same word appears time and time again " SENIORITY "
Ps... the guy that took over my duty with more ' seniority ' goes past me on a regular basis and rubs it in ...w***er.

As mentioned that is bollocks see your rep!