normal moaners and groaners - what sell out ?

[dvbuk55]

The problem is that people who criticise the professed overblown achievements of the union are classed as moaners but history has proven that the criticism is not malicious but prophetic.

Anyone who thinks the leopard is going to change it's spots is seriously deluded. Royal Mail ARE stalling for time: once the Christmas press begins there will be a billing and cooing to forestall any action with the promise of revisits, improved offers, legally binding terms etc but once the honeymoon is over it will be back to the same old, same old.

I mean seriously what value would we place on an "improved" offer in comparison to RM in whichever part of the proposal it refers to. To my mind the relative value is worthless unless it is quantified and naturally, like always, it's a closed book. Personally I think it would save a lot of time if the negotiations were open to the members day by day who could say what is and isn't acceptable.

[Judgee]

Erm ok I must have missed some info here. The new deal is 5 years, no strings, etc. Where is this info? Have I missed a post somewhere? All I have read is that negotiations are continuing and more details will be given out later? Seriously, have I missed a news bulletin somewhere?

[Cut Off King]

negotiations were open to the members day by day who could say what is and isn't acceptable.

I think you'll find that the CWU HQ know whats best for you, and you should remember that your only there to vote in PLAN "A" ( there's no plan "B" after all )

[mr deeds]

mmm I hope they nail item number 5 everybody hates that...
good luck boys

[Glenno]

Probably not the best title for a Topic, but that said it is very informative and it does give the Members a glimpse of what is going on in these negotiations, whether you agree or not that it is a "sell off " will come out in the fullness of time, my main concern about the postponed I/A is that we could be played in the build up to Chrimbo?? I hope that the Meeting on Monday is "open & frank " and the full release Guy's & Gall's really get the message across to the Negotiators exactly the feelings of grass root members, and lastly I do appreciate " Dingo " for his ever and relentless quest to keep the populas informed, its just a pity that CWU HQ don't feel the same about the sharing of info or could I be wrong?

[k979aaa]

Someone once said give peace a chance for without peace their is war I say I will give peace a chance and it will be one hell of a war if it does not succeed!

[arnold cheshire]

didnt the union say bt2010 was a good deal the deal of the century ? excuse me im still waiting for £800 from that deal

[Glenno]

didnt the union say bt2010 was a good deal the deal of the century ? excuse me im still waiting for £800 from that deal

Once you got it you wont want it

[dvbuk55]

didnt the union say bt2010 was a good deal the deal of the century ? excuse me im still waiting for £800 from that deal

Don't be so impatient it hasn't been 4 years yet

[Phantom]

I would like to see in the agreement that says "IF ROYAL MAIL DON'T ABIDE BY THE AGREEMENT THEN A STRIKE WILL COMMENCE" because i'll tell you now the agreement will mean f**k all to RM, they'll say anthing to get through Christmas and stick to NOTHING on the rest. Agreements will be vague and at local level which is a cop out, so i don't hope for much.....

[nataddick]

I am in full agreement with Dingo.

On a positive note and assuming a deal is done by 13th - does anyone know the timetable for the deal to be put to CWU members?

Personally, I would not want to be part of the negotiating team, trying to cover every base. I am happy to defer to the CWU personnel that have experience in this area and trust them to deliver the best deal that they consider can be achieved. Yes, members will always want more but this has to be tempered with a sense of realism.

It is easy for people to be wise (critical) after the event. No form of words will cover every eventuality and any agreement is always under-pinned with a 'Psychological Contract' - a description of which is given below. A bit wordy but it does cover the reality of what goes down on a day to day basis and how people interact with each other.

'The reality of employment rights and duties emerges through the interpersonal relationships formed in the workplace. How employers, supervisors and managers behave on a day-to-day basis is not determined by the legal contract. Employees slowly negotiate what they must do to satisfy their side of the bargain, and what they can expect in return. This negotiation is sometimes explicit, e.g. in appraisal or performance review sessions, but it more often takes the form of behavioral action and reaction through which the parties explore and draw the boundaries of mutual expectation. Hence, the psychological contract determines what the parties will, or will not do and how it will be done. When the parties' expectations match each other, performance is likely to be good and satisfaction levels will be high. So long as the values and loyalty persist, trust and commitment will be maintained'

[Martin Walsh]

It is important that you remember that if their is a deal then whilst the words of an agreement will be written by both Royal Mail and the CWU the actual legally binding guarantees will be written by solicitors. Both Royal Mail and CWU have their legal experts in the negotiations.

It is also important that you recognise that it won't be an agreement over interpretations on words. Instead we will be able to take Royal Mail to the High Court and apply for an injunction if we believe they are not keeping to the legal guarantees such as franchising or outsourcing.

[dvbuk55]

It is important that you remember that if their is a deal then whilst the words of an agreement will be written by both Royal Mail and the CWU

As was BT2010 or at least the woolly wording that constituted the agreement

the actual legally binding guarantees will be written by solicitors. Both Royal Mail and CWU have their legal experts in the negotiations.

It is also important that you recognise that it won't be an agreement over interpretations on words. Instead we will be able to take Royal Mail to the High Court and apply for an injunction if we believe they are not keeping to the legal guarantees such as franchising or outsourcing.

It's great having legally binding guarantees BUT legally binding what? Having read many legal documents in another life they are NOT the most clear or easily understood documents.

[cloherty1976]

It is important that you remember that if their is a deal then whilst the words of an agreement will be written by both Royal Mail and the CWU the actual legally binding guarantees will be written by solicitors. Both Royal Mail and CWU have their legal experts in the negotiations.

It is also important that you recognise that it won't be an agreement over interpretations on words. Instead we will be able to take Royal Mail to the High Court and apply for an injunction if we believe they are not keeping to the legal guarantees such as franchising or outsourcing.

People always moan about the last 2 deals but did the cwu ever take a high court injunction out against the Royal Mail and if so did they win? If not the deals must have been ok and everyone should be happy about them!

[fishtank]

People always moan about the last 2 deals but did the cwu ever take a high court injunction out against the Royal Mail and if so did they win? If not the deals must have been ok and everyone should be happy about them!

No agreement we've ever had with our employer has had any legal underpinning.
It's very unusual in collective bargaining,It's a step into the unknown but this is a very unusual agreement that doesn't just deal with the normal kind of collective bargaining issues.

This one actually aims to shape the Royal Mail business model for at least the medium term.
Nobody should underestimate how high the stakes are here,this is not playing at having an influence in our future,this is the real thing.