Union set to endorse mail boycott

[clashcityrocker]

Can we book docket for marching up and down the hill?
Or is that being lapsed?

[fishtank]

Can we book docket for marching up and down the hill?
Or is that being lapsed?

You should always plan your route to start at the top of the hill then march down.
Page 1 of delivery route planning.
Always let the van do the hard work.

[Red Robbo]

Do we have a trade dispute with Royal Mail on the issue of USO ?

[chelmsfordpostie]

No we don't have a trade dispute hence why we can't ballot on industrial action. The ballot will be a consultative ballot to see if the membership support the boycott. After reading the comments pages on some of our right wing newspaper forums such as the daily mail, we for once have the support of even the more right wing of the public. This isn't just about the competitors mail but privatisation as well. This is one dispute we can't afford to lose. We have the public with us , now all we need is the membership and we might once more be able to defeat the governments plans to sell us off.

[SpacePhoenix]

How can it work though? RM will probably be charging people with wilful delay left, right and centre, what would there be to stop RM from charging people with wilful delay?

[Red Robbo]

How can it work though? RM will probably be charging people with wilful delay left, right and centre, what would there be to stop RM from charging people with wilful delay?

Yeah, just imagine it pockets of members charged with wilful delay and suspended all over the UK because they followed the boycott and then get dismissed, "all for one and one for all" on your own that is ?

[andy2007]

How can it work though? RM will probably be charging people with wilful delay left, right and centre, what would there be to stop RM from charging people with wilful delay?

Yeah, just imagine it pockets of members charged with wilful delay and suspended all over the UK because they followed the boycott and then get dismissed, "all for one and one for all" on your own that is ?

If we all stick together, how will they be able to do that?
How many times have we all refused to handle mail from sites with local strike action, and kept our jobs?
It's even happened comparitively recently. Yes, obviously they play the "willful delay" card, to try to intimidate us. But if sufficient numbers stand up to them, they don't go through with it. Yes, some may be hit with willful delay charges, if they're in a minority. But if we stand together, there's little they can do. Who'd sort and deliver the mail, if they sacked the majority of us?

[fishtank]

I wonder how much "fight" Royal Mail will put up?

Obviously they have to put on a show for the government and the DSA "customers" but at the end of the day this fight is ultimately about the regulator's refusal to deal with the issue of companies cherry picking the end to end delivery market.

That is a position Royal Mail holds itself so are they going to go to war with their own staff over a position they actually agree with?

This obviously raises a more stomach churning prospect...are we in fact being used by our employer as a pawn to further their objective of limiting the damage done by end to end delivery?

And the least palatable question...is the union aware of or involved in this?

[clashcityrocker]

...are we in fact being used by our employer as a pawn to further their objective of limiting the damage done by end to end delivery?

And the least palatable question...is the union aware of or involved in this?

How could they not be?
This whole - "Boycott DSA" is so disingenuous because that isn't what this is about.

[dvbuk55]

I wonder how much "fight" Royal Mail will put up?

Obviously they have to put on a show for the government and the DSA "customers" but at the end of the day this fight is ultimately about the regulator's refusal to deal with the issue of companies cherry picking the end to end delivery market.

That is a position Royal Mail holds itself so are they going to go to war with their own staff over a position they actually agree with?

This obviously raises a more stomach churning prospect...are we in fact being used by our employer as a pawn to further their objective of limiting the damage done by end to end delivery?

And the least palatable question...is the union aware of or involved in this?

My thoughts exactly! Don't you find it strange that after so long the union are suddenly taking an interest in the DSA issue? Lets look at the real issue, would RM want a free for all on postal deliveries either through its infrastructure or by self operators charging a more competitive rate with RM still having to deliver at close to or even less than cost with privatisation looming. RM would be only to pleased to have a basis on which to go to potential investors with an agreement on its status with DSA operators. As with most issues in recent years, although there has been no "Joint" statement understandably so, I think everything is a little too convenient for the lord and master to be coincidental.

[Danelectro]

I wonder how much "fight" Royal Mail will put up?

Obviously they have to put on a show for the government and the DSA "customers" but at the end of the day this fight is ultimately about the regulator's refusal to deal with the issue of companies cherry picking the end to end delivery market.

That is a position Royal Mail holds itself so are they going to go to war with their own staff over a position they actually agree with?

This obviously raises a more stomach churning prospect...are we in fact being used by our employer as a pawn to further their objective of limiting the damage done by end to end delivery?

And the least palatable question...is the union aware of or involved in this?

My thoughts exactly! Don't you find it strange that after so long the union are suddenly taking an interest in the DSA issue? Lets look at the real issue, would RM want a free for all on postal deliveries either through its infrastructure or by self operators charging a more competitive rate with RM still having to deliver at close to or even less than cost with privatisation looming. RM would be only to pleased to have a basis on which to go to potential investors with an agreement on its status with DSA operators. As with most issues in recent years, although there has been no "Joint" statement understandably so, I think everything is a little too convenient for the lord and master to be coincidental.

It does seem plausible as on one hand we have Dave Ward saying we are on a collision course with Royal Mail but on the other hand the constant fawning over Moya Greene and the suggestion that Higson and the rest are not to blame for any bullying in delivery offices and the result of that can be seen in the last weeks new agreement.Is this a concession in exchange for protection of members if any boycott should go ahead?

...but is there not any implications legal or otherwise for a democratic trade union to go down that road??? Also why cant Moya Greene approach ministers ,the press etc with the issue-whats stopping her from putting it on the record about the regulator etc etc

[dvbuk55]

...but is there not any implications legal or otherwise for a democratic trade union to go down that road??? Also why cant Moya Greene approach ministers ,the press etc with the issue-whats stopping her from putting it on the record about the regulator etc etc

Well there's at least two reasons:

1. Why would she jeopardise her position with the Government by seeming to disassociate herself from the party line
2. She has a willing partner who would potentially jeopardise the paying members of the CWU to fight her cause.

Of course it's a case of dumb and dumber against a sophisticated woman who would sacrifice nothing in her attempt to regularise DSA payment before privatisation but is quite happy to have the CWU do it for her. Perhaps there's a deal on the table that we don't know about and it won't be better T&Cs for us.

[Red Robbo]

...but is there not any implications legal or otherwise for a democratic trade union to go down that road??? Also why cant Moya Greene approach ministers ,the press etc with the issue-whats stopping her from putting it on the record about the regulator etc etc

Well there's at least two reasons:

1. Why would she jeopardise her position with the Government by seeming to disassociate herself from the party line
2. She has a willing partner who would potentially jeopardise the paying members of the CWU to fight her cause.

Of course it's a case of dumb and dumber against a sophisticated woman who would sacrifice nothing in her attempt to regularise DSA payment before privatisation but is quite happy to have the CWU do it for her. Perhaps there's a deal on the table that we don't know about and it won't be better T&Cs for us.

Anyone heard of the saying being used as "cannon fodder" ?

[dvbuk55]

...but is there not any implications legal or otherwise for a democratic trade union to go down that road??? Also why cant Moya Greene approach ministers ,the press etc with the issue-whats stopping her from putting it on the record about the regulator etc etc

Well there's at least two reasons:

1. Why would she jeopardise her position with the Government by seeming to disassociate herself from the party line
2. She has a willing partner who would potentially jeopardise the paying members of the CWU to fight her cause.

Of course it's a case of dumb and dumber against a sophisticated woman who would sacrifice nothing in her attempt to regularise DSA payment before privatisation but is quite happy to have the CWU do it for her. Perhaps there's a deal on the table that we don't know about and it won't be better T&Cs for us.

Anyone heard of the saying being used as "cannon fodder" ?

Well that would depend on whether or not we get to vote on the issue as individuals or if it's a case of a Branch ballot or even a BB knows best decision.

[Martin Walsh]

The reason why the union has launched the campaign on protecting the USO is that the regulator is not listening and is agreeing new end to end delivery services.

Yes we have had DSA for a number of years and it has impacted on RDCs , VOCs and the outward part of the mail centre but has had little impact on the amount of items an inward mail centre , professional drivers or delivery offices. The fact that TNT now has a business strategy to deliver mail and it is a simply strategy of using the posters they have with DSA and offering them to delver their mail in a certain postcode area to a certain amount of addresses on one or two days per week. They are paying them £7.10 per hour including London Weighting and have to work 6 days per week and have no set working hours between 0600 till 1800. They have to work across postcodes.

They have to use a bike as they are only interested in capturing letters at this moment. When they get to a certain traffic number in a postcode area they expand and now have operations in W2-14 ,EC , W1 , WC and SW1 and are due to expand to the rest of the SW London area. The TNT model is to have a delivery service in 40% of urban areas in the UK within 3 years.

TNT do not have to deliver anything they don't want too and do not have to achieve quality figures or pay compensation for mis-delivery etc. They regularly dump mail and your see that in a tv programme due to be screened soon and they regularly put mail back into the Royal Mail system where Royal Mail does not surcharge them and often end up delivering it for free.

Think about it currently the 66% of all Royal Mail costs are in delivering the final mile. If Royal Mail start to lose mail in delivery offices to another provider be that TNT or somebody else then the costs of delivering the final mile will increase and become unsustainable. Hence the union is putting pressure on the Government and the regulator to change tact about allowing another end to end provider.

Now in terms of the strategy the decision to call for a boycott has twice got good news coverage and put pressure on the regulator and government. Personally i believe that it is far more likely that we will be balloting members on boycotting all mail rather than just DSA Mail. Given what we face in terms of concluding the revisions and achieving the lumps sums, resolving the failing revisions by investment , dealing with the current mail centre and RDC/VOC closures , the impact on parcels strategy , the new business plan and productivity , the further problem to our pensions , pay and the threat of privatisation and what happens all are converging to either ensure that we have a row , or that we get stitched up by the Government , Royal Mail or even a new employer.