We need an alternative union

[first_class_stamp]

its too late to change now. maybe 10 years ago even 5 would have made a big differance. weather we be here in 5 years time is not something i put money on

Blackadder, what do u mean by if we are here in 5 years time?

[first_class_stamp]

Thats exactly what my RM regional manager told me this morning ,it must be true

BELIAL what did your regional manager tell you?

[fishtank]

Fish..... The CWU officials are employed by Royal Mail and paid by Royal Mail and have f****d postmen’s/postwomens jobs and lives up..

That's way too big a generalisation for me.
I criticise what i see wrong and sometimes even praise what i see right.
Lumping them all as tossers is much the same in my book as putting on the rose-tinted specs and saying everything's bright and shiny.

[Martin Walsh]

first class I believe we should all have an honest discussion , see yes we all realise change is never welcome and in Royal Mail it seems we have constant change over the last few years. But very few industries have had the kind of attack we have seen from the Government and Post Comm as Royal Mail.

Now if we all are having an honest debate about things how many don't like the changes which CDVs introduce and door to door into workload is cause it stops them making time out of the job. No union can argue for better wages and conditions but have people continue to finish early.

Now you list some points door to door as a reason well you can join any union you like and they will not be able to stop Royal Mail including door to door into workload why cause the media of advirtising is still growing and it is worth 1.2 billion and Royal Mail share is less than 800 million. TNG or any other union could not tell ford we don't want to work on the escort but we want to work on the Capri only. IT don't work like that.

Yes outdoor work is increasing in the same way as indoor work is decreasing due to automation.

Colleague share well the union opposed the introduction of colleague share as it was a con and moved as much into lump sums linked to the revisons. Equally talks are under way to try and find a solution on colleague share.

Now in terms of over running deliveries revisons are failing in some offices for a variety of reasons and we need to resolve them at all levels , the union does not start of finish at 150 the broadway being in a union means we should all be responsible for dealing with problems in offices locally , area and divisonally.

Worst conditions , well I have been in the industry since 1984 and then people were on low pay and worked 6 days per week and had to rely on overtime to survive. In 1994 pay was £10 000 per year for working 41.5 hours and 6 days per week. basic pay has gone up , hours have reduced and since 2003 5 day week working has been a miniumn. So whats got worst.

You say mostly part time that again is simply not true , the majority in deliveries are full time.

Now I know CDVs are not popular but the fact is packets are going to keep increasing and you cannot put them on bikes or in your private car or on. Your back. So a van is the best method and it should take the weight off your shoulder. Most offices when they have CDVs oppose them cause you cannot continue to rush out and make time out of the job as your dependent on someone else.

Now you say things are only going to get worse they may or they might not but in my opinion the CWU are not perfect but there better then most other unions in protecting the workforce at local level but protection should also start from the bottom up with the support of Branch's.

[dvbuk55]

Yep things are really rosy and alls right with the world

rose tinted.jpg

[JamAliSch]

This may not be the right place for this, if not can the admin/mod move to relevant place (new topic maybe?)

The union is crap, its officials are also corrupt. Recently a cheshire sorting office recruited five new workers part-time, of these five, everyone of them had a parent in this sorting offices union. Apparently there was advertisement about these jobs going on a noticeboard and online.

That wasn't the case since my mother and uncle as well as some family friends work at said sorting office and didn't see this advertisement at all. It took less then a week from the apparent advertisement to the hiring of these new workers.

Bit miffed off since I have worked at royal mail as a casual for a little over four years, with job alerts set up on the RM site, and I didn't receive any alerts.

To continue this, after the workers three month engagement and they're contracts being extended, one of the female part timers has gone straight onto back-up manager training (manager shadowing), the very same girls father is the union boss for the sorting office.

/verymad

[POSTMAN]

Management as well Jam,I know an office where a manager has had 2 sons get jobs there,jobs that weren't put out.

Does it happen around the business a lot,management or union,law of averages says yes it does.

[BELIAL]

It gets worse, apparently there is some sort of conference going on Delegates and motions and such like, hardly democratic if the branch fails to inform the membership of the time and place of the agm two years running . Is this acceptable?

[Martin Walsh]

It gets worse, apparently there is some sort of conference going on Delegates and motions and such like, hardly democratic if the branch fails to inform the membership of the time and place of the agm two years running . Is this acceptable?

No it's not acceptable and needs to be stopped. But not every Branch Iike that and I would say the union does more good than harm and it is easy answer to criticise the union but perhaps some of those who criticise should become reps and then they will see just cause you argue something with Royal Mail they don't just put up the white flag. You have to pick and choose the way you tackle things ,sometimes you argue and back it up with the threat of pulling out of a revison or a ballot but it depends on the issue and the support you will get.

Lots of reps do things which fundrementally help members from winning cases be that RTUs or appeals , to assisting them on harassment , accidents , pension issues , annual leave problems , dog bites , accidents , pay issues , welfare problems to wider revison and a whole range of unions.

No union in the country over the last 20 years have taken more strike action and over the 12 years pay and terms and conditions have gone up faster than it did over the previous 40 years. Remember in 1994 nAtional pay rates stood at 10 000 for working 6 days per week and 41.5 hours.

Now no union as the Print unions and the Miners have found out have a veto over automation and changes to the mix of mail ie more packets have led to the use of CDVs and the growing unaddressed market was always going to change the way door to door was deliverd. When I first started door to door was delivered on overtime or by surplus staff , then it was delivered by walk holders but quality and the cap was always going to hinder progress.

I think people believe unions could stop automation and and stop Royal Mail from growing a product which market is worth over a billion pounds of which Royal Mail have a small share. No union could do that as the Print Unions found out at Wapping and as the Miners found out.

[dvbuk55]

I don't recall the miners or print unions getting into bed with the employer.

Very interesting points dingo - but totally divorced from the problems that beset the delivery workforce at this point in time, not twenty years ago. No one has said that we shouldn't move forward, we shouldn't embrace automation - it's the manner in which it is deployed and the management influence in the workplace that is the biggest problem.

I think that the cosy relationship between the CWU and Royal Mail to be a totally unhealthy environment for true negotiations in bringing about increased terms and conditions.

There is a statistic I would be interested in two years down the line from the agreement - what is the breakdown of full time to part time staff NOW.

[Martin Walsh]

Well maybe Eric Hammond did get into bed with Murdoch and maybe the UDM did as well. But I don't see where we are getting into bed with Royal Mail.

We rejected the idea of partnership boards under the Sawyer review. I sat on a few and they were point less.

Now our union has defeated privitisation on 5 separate occasions , no other union has done that so you could hardly call this union weak.

The fact is that the Con Dems have now got the bill though parliament and whilst the union is still opposed to privitisation it is as some of you called for looking at plan b. If the government decided to go with the sale off of 90% of the company and leave the employee share option of 10% why should't the CWU argue for a bigger share of the employee share why would it not argue for 30% or more employee share option and why then would it not demand a 30 per cent share of the make up of Boards and a 30% share of the decisions. it may well be that the employees held the biggest share and why would it not use that share to influence things for the better for employees.

No one in the CWU will support a phoney partnership and many of us have had our share of wars over the years with Royal Mail and come close to being dismissed on two occasions for sticking up for members interests so I along with many others are not going to surrender to Royal Mail when they are in the wrong.

You say I am at distance from what what's happening and I would disagree I moved the motion calling for a review of the 100 failing units at conference and whilst it was defeated it has meant that there will not be a model agreement which has to be filled in at every unit both those which have already introduced revisons and those who will in the future which will be tracked and monitored and will reveal any problems , whether the PIR has been done , whether the office has had the option of 1 In 4 , what is the ratio of full time to part and many other things. Not before time will the national picture really be truthfully known and then we will also know where the problems are. Local DOMs and Local reps will sign it off and it will be reviewed by the area ,Divisonal and national levels.

I can't believe some Branch's signed revisons off without anything being put on paper.

[dvbuk55]

Hey why not ask for 50%, they didn't pay the last share deal what makes anyone think there would be any money at the end of the day - and if there is what the cost to the workforce would be.

I wait with bated breath to hear what the full time/part time breakdown is - does anyone know, does anyone care now that the agreement is in, is anyone monitoring it, or are we quietly heading for the Dutch model?

[fishtank]

why should't the CWU argue for a bigger share of the employee share why would it not argue for 30% or more employee share option and why then would it not demand a 30 per cent share of the make up of Boards and a 30% share of the decisions.

Because the CWU won't have a 30% share in anything...the members and non-members will.
I give the CWU the right to speak for me as a union member but i don't remember giving the CWU the right to speak for me as a shareholder...or sit on a board on my behalf...or attend lunches and max the expenses card.
Why shouldn't i sit in that seat or DV or any of the other shareholders?

What an arrogant idea that the members will allow the CWU to abandon it's role as a union,jump aboard the shareholder bandwagon....and do so,not with it's own shares but with the shares of the very staff it has betrayed.
Think on...if the CWU wants so badly to be a shareholder they can f**k off and buy their own.

[dvbuk55]

You somehow get the feeling that the deal is done and Moya and Dave are cosying up to be Chair and Vice Chair of the new (and improved?) Communication And Royal Mail Workers Staff Association.

I think the union need to be careful that this wheeler dealing doesn't affect their income. Someone was boasting how BT 2010 didn't cost any members but subsequent figures showed that to be untrue and you don't need to be a genius to work out that RM would definitely use any means necessary if the membership fell below a negotiating mean.

[Martin Walsh]

Fish the new model which will be subject to a policy forum will try and ensure the CWU will be the voice on that board , the details need to be ironed out and just like now the union will still negotiate on all issues.

Look the model is still to be worked up and many of us have reservations over it and remain to be convinced or we won't accept it but what if We are sold off , any sensible union would scope and think how do we fight the future.