Why I'm upset

[Veni Vidi Vidic!]

Having leighton and co. forced back to the table to negotiations after they have been so adament that nothing in the offer would change surley has to be first blood to the cwu.

And we can all pat ourselves on the back and say we did that!
remember it was I/A not a holiday.

of course they said nothing would change, you never bought anything second hand?

the fact they are ready to move, shows they were rocked, that's the time to push harder not to ease off.

[Veni Vidi Vidic!]

- that both parties commit to talks on all the issues between them, hosted and facilitated by the TUC. Both sides commit to reach an agreement by 4 September.
- that, during this period the talks are on a confidential basis with no media or internal briefings unless explicitly jointly agreed. The CWU Executive and Royal Mail Board will receive regular updates on progress and would also be expected to undertake this confidentiality clause.
- that, for that period, Royal Mail will not serve notice or take any unilateral action to impose changes by executive action.
- that, for that period CWU will suspend industrial action.
- that, the signatories to this joint statement will review the process as and when necessary.

I hope everyone is stocked up on KY jelly cos youse are about to be shafted.

[baldrick]

VVV - I take it from your posts that you are not a postal worker. I don't know if you are a trade unionist even.
The reality is that at some point in a dispute there has to be negotiation in order to reach an areement.
Our negotiators may be 'bigwigs' but they were postalworkers who have been elected by us to represent us.
Someone has to represent us in negotiations and we have to put our trust in them to some degree.
I guess your political views don't recognise that, but that is how it is in the real world.

[Veni Vidi Vidic!]

VVV - I take it from your posts that you are not a postal worker. I don't know if you are a trade unionist even.
The reality is that at some point in a dispute there has to be negotiation in order to reach an areement.
Our negotiators may be 'bigwigs' but they were postalworkers who have been elected by us to represent us.
Someone has to represent us in negotiations and we have to put our trust in them to some degree.
I guess your political views don't recognise that, but that is how it is in the real world.

no i'm not a postal worker or currently in a union job (there are millions of us out there!).
Why should the negotiations go on behind closed doors, between people unaffected by the actual outcome?
Why stop your strike for negotiations? What power do workers have then? A forceful handshake and ten yard stare from some trade union careerist? Aye, you can imagine the RM bosses shiting themselves at that? They'll probably shite it as much as the government did when the FBU leadership laid down the law, or rather laid down their members for a right shafting!
What's so fantastical about staying out forming, your strike committees and mass assemblies and voting on whatever they approach youse en masse collectively whilst not having disbanded the only leverage youse have, that is industrial action? Actually there are other approachs too, work to rules and the like that could be carried on, if there isn't the mood for more militant actions.
These negotiations are to buy the RM more time, they will strengthen their hand, they'll hope to have evaporated off much of the wilingness to fight and then youse will be handed a shitty offer and be forced to accept it.

[baldrick]

I admire your idealism, and come the revolution no doubt we will be having the mass meetings to detirmine our collective futures, but until we arrive at that happy situation we do have to use the recognised procedures.
The power the workers have is to withdraw their labour which is what we have been doing, and have forced Leighton and Crozier to negotiate, which they were adamantly refusing to do at the outset.
I think the working to 318s will continue to keep up the pressure. And if the eventual proposals are unacceptable, I think that our Branch Committees and Reps will recommend rejection, and we will be ready to restart Industrial Action - at a time when it will hit RM even harder in the run up to Xmas, and when other unions may be joining us.

[Veni Vidi Vidic!]

I admire your idealism, and come the revolution no doubt we will be having the mass meetings to detirmine our collective futures, but until we arrive at that happy situation we do have to use the recognised procedures.
The power the workers have is to withdraw their labour which is what we have been doing, and have forced Leighton and Crozier to negotiate, which they were adamantly refusing to do at the outset.
I think the working to 318s will continue to keep up the pressure. And if the eventual proposals are unacceptable, I think that our Branch Committees and Reps will recommend rejection, and we will be ready to restart Industrial Action - at a time when it will hit RM even harder in the run up to Xmas, and when other unions may be joining us.

So that's more wages lost for workers (and remember xmas works both ways, whose willing to lose wages before then? think of the temp staff brought in too!), momemtum lost and haivng to be rebuilt. You are dreaming if you think the Union leadership will support serious strike action in the run up to xmas not to mention the problems of trying to keep a strike solid when kids presents have to be bought.

And of course Crozier and Leighton were adamant they wouldn't negotiate, haven't you ever bought a second hand car? They aren't stupid, they always intended to negotiate, they've chosen to do so now and it will take the wind out of the workers sails.

[baldrick]

When I was young I was idealistic too. But age brings cynicism and a recognition of the realities of life.
I understand what you're saying, but don't think you understand the realities of our lives.
We will have to agree to disagree. And un fortunately I have to go to work now (rather than to the picketline as I had been expecting up to 4pm yesterday). That's the reality of my life.

[Veni Vidi Vidic!]

i don't think there is anything niave or idealistic about my assesement here, the one thing that does seem idealistic is the idea that the Union leadership will reject the agreement, push for further strike action in the run up to xmas and that this will have anything approaching the same momentum and solidness. My assesment is actually more rooted in a justified cynicism for the union bureacrats and negotiators whose main interest is any action staying under their control than winning, those negoitators don't exactly share the same interests as the average postie, afterall you don't get to slither up the Labour Party apparatus if you aren't prepared to twist the knife on workers, you got to be seen as a reasonable man that business can work with.

[Snatch]

Whatever is agreed,(and that is what we wanted,DISCUSSION).What are we prepared to do about it?
Carry on as normal? Tell everyone that it is still job & finish?
The new deal WILL inlude efficiency's.Let's jump on it before it is announced and change our
attitude's toward our career's.

[Loyalblue]

Shite!
No one told me it was all off! Wern`t called ,double checked the phones and kids for messages - who`s got that mushroom job?
Lets see what happens with the talks. As said veiwihg the stance RM had adopted - `were not negotiating`- it`s shows we`ve acheived something. But yeah lets be aware of any possible divide and rule tactics,

[JAMESMARSH1980]

I for one think this is just a smokescreen, its buying them more time, were going to have to clear the backlog in the next few weeks so that means the easy days are no longer easy and come sep the 4th I predict nothing. I really hope everybody sticks to the 318's as seen as we are not striking lets still give them something to think about !

[staffordtigers]

The thing that worries me is that these talks are secret. Nothing will be said about these talks unless it's a joint statement, which worries the crap out of me. Royal Mail & union should come up with a verbal agreement, then put it to the members to vote, and not just sign seal deliver the agreement, look at the way forward !!! load of shite that was. If the 6am - 7am starts, thats me looking for another job. Ive got kids to think of, finnnishing at lunchtime suits me, thats why I became a postie over 11 yrs ago. Cant be doing with 7am - 1500 hrs work pattern. if I wanted to work them hrs I would of been a admin assistant at the local council

[BELIAL]

VVV,swp? not a criticism i wish you well and thanks for your support,but maybe the silent spider catches more flies.Bet you know who the best teacher is.Please keep it up.

[Veni Vidi Vidic!]

VVV,swp? not a criticism i wish you well and thanks for your support,but maybe the silent spider catches more flies.Bet you know who the best teacher is.Please keep it up.

lol, no not swp at all.

not following your proverb though.

[baldrick]

The SWP discourage their members from taking part in onlline chatrooms.
They apparently believe that it would take up too much of their time and distract
them from the task of building the revolutionary party. They base their activity on
the pre 1917 Russian Bolsheviks, and believe that they should recruit people by
selling their papers and talking to people face to face. They have not yet entered
the Internet era, though their paper is published online.