what's the difference between an accident and incident

[clashcityrocker]

Then it would seem the terms are becoming inter-changeable.
It seems to be an incident if you are to blame. If you are to blame then they don't want to discount any consequent sick leave at the attendance procedure (and possibly want to pursue the conduct code)
I have to say I have only ever heard the term "blameworthy" applied to drivers.

[stokes11eg]

The terms are interchangable--just remember though, that an incident can lead to an accident! So, falling on the stairs itself could be classed as the incident, but any injury sustained becomes the accident! Clear as mud, but don't let Royal Mail try to get out of their resposibilities by using the word incident, and implying you are to blame!

[fishtank]

If you simply fall on the stairs because you are a clumsy bugger it's an incident.
If you fall on the stairs because they are icy it's an accident.
Whether or not you injure yourself is irrelevant to the classification...although obviously not to you.

[stokes11eg]

If you simply fall on the stairs because you are a clumsy bugger it's an incident.
If you fall on the stairs because they are icy it's an accident.
Whether or not you injure yourself is irrelevant to the classification...although obviously not to you.

Sorry, do not agree with your classification! will come back with the correct legal terminology shortly!

[fishtank]

If you simply fall on the stairs because you are a clumsy bugger it's an incident.
If you fall on the stairs because they are icy it's an accident.
Whether or not you injure yourself is irrelevant to the classification...although obviously not to you.

Sorry, do not agree with your classification! will come back with the correct legal terminology shortly!

I'm not arguing about legal terminology stokesy.
Just what Royal Mail use to differentiate accident and incident...at least in my area.

[clashcityrocker]

What about if you fall on the stairs that are icy but you aren't wearing RM issue footwear or spikys?

(£24.99 from Amazon)

[wolfie citizen smith]

If you simply fall on the stairs because you are a clumsy bugger it's an incident.
If you fall on the stairs because they are icy it's an accident.

couldn't disagree with you more on this one........If you full down a flight of icy stairs then the blame lays with YOU!!!! even if you are wearing a pair of company issues because you have faid to risk assess your delivery surroundings and therefore could not claim from anyone and could even be staged under the attendance procedure if you were to have any time off relating to injury

[stokes11eg]

What about if you fall on the stairs that are icy but you aren't wearing RM issue footwear or spikys?

(£24.99 from Amazon)

but what if you didn't have spikys or been issued with R/M footwear! Truly, with the casual workers being drafted in , this could be a real problem!

[stokes11eg]

If you simply fall on the stairs because you are a clumsy bugger it's an incident.
If you fall on the stairs because they are icy it's an accident.

couldn't disagree with you more on this one........If you full down a flight of icy stairs then the blame lays with YOU!!!! even if you are wearing a pair of company issues because you have faid to risk assess your delivery surroundings and therefore could not claim from anyone and could even be staged under the attendance procedure if you were to have any time off relating to injury

Sorry Wolfie, things aren't always this black and white in assessing claims, nor should they be! If you can lay aside the connotation of the word incident, which implies some kind of blame, and look at it from an insurance company's point of view? Firstly, they would look at the 'incident' which led to the 'accident' which in its broadest sense, means someone is injured.Then they would look at culpability. Thankfully, most companies still regognise that the vast majority of people would not say deliberatly throw themselves form ladders, or headlong down icy stairs. and usually, somwhere along the line, the 'incident' becomes re-defined' as accident' and claims are paid out.
Now who's to blame? If I as an individual decided to go out and deliver my own Christmas cards in this weather, then slipped and broke my leg, my insurance company would deem me to be at fault, I had a choice, took a risk,and my 'accident' was avoidable. However, when it comes to Emplyoment, a whole new set of rules apply.The MANAGERS are responsible, ultimately for deciding wether we deliver or not, and are responsible for what happens to you during your working hours--they simply cannot shift the blame on to the individual, although they seem to be trying to, with, sadly the backing of the Unions.It is no accident if you pardon the expression, that Managers are now NOT expecting us to deliver in conditions that a few years ago they would have forced you out in! It is because they are responsible-and forget this 'Hobsons' choice thing of refusing a direct order from you manager--there is still, in this country, an accepted implication that we obey our Employers--and, beware if Mangagers are asking for volunteers--make sure you are covered by the company insurance, working voluntarily can change the emphasis from working on a compulsary basis, to you had a choice type sceanrio!

[fishtank]

If you simply fall on the stairs because you are a clumsy bugger it's an incident.
If you fall on the stairs because they are icy it's an accident.

couldn't disagree with you more on this one........If you full down a flight of icy stairs then the blame lays with YOU!!!! even if you are wearing a pair of company issues because you have faid to risk assess your delivery surroundings and therefore could not claim from anyone and could even be staged under the attendance procedure if you were to have any time off relating to injury

Again...it has nothing to do with who's to blame or who's at fault or who didn't risk assessing their surroundings.
Just that an unsafe act occurred....so it should be deemed an accident.
The blame game starts later in the process and you are just as likely to be blamed for an accident as an incident or vice versa.

[meercat]

If I had an 'incident' in my pants would that become an 'accident' if it made me fall down some stairs? I'm confused.

[fishtank]

If I had an 'incident' in my pants would that become an 'accident' if it made me fall down some stairs? I'm confused.

Anything you do in your pants meercat,... is automatically assessed as an unsafe act.
Probably illegal as well.

[wolfie citizen smith]

If you simply fall on the stairs because you are a clumsy bugger it's an incident.
If you fall on the stairs because they are icy it's an accident.

couldn't disagree with you more on this one........If you full down a flight of icy stairs then the blame lays with YOU!!!! even if you are wearing a pair of company issues because you have faid to risk assess your delivery surroundings and therefore could not claim from anyone and could even be staged under the attendance procedure if you were to have any time off relating to injury

Sorry Wolfie, things aren't always this black and white in assessing claims, nor should they be! If you can lay aside the connotation of the word incident, which implies some kind of blame, and look at it from an insurance company's point of view? Firstly, they would look at the 'incident' which led to the 'accident' which in its broadest sense, means someone is injured.Then they would look at culpability. Thankfully, most companies still regognise that the vast majority of people would not say deliberatly throw themselves form ladders, or headlong down icy stairs. and usually, somwhere along the line, the 'incident' becomes re-defined' as accident' and claims are paid out.
Now who's to blame? If I as an individual decided to go out and deliver my own Christmas cards in this weather, then slipped and broke my leg, my insurance company would deem me to be at fault, I had a choice, took a risk,and my 'accident' was avoidable. However, when it comes to Emplyoment, a whole new set of rules apply.The MANAGERS are responsible, ultimately for deciding wether we deliver or not, and are responsible for what happens to you during your working hours--they simply cannot shift the blame on to the individual, although they seem to be trying to, with, sadly the backing of the Unions.It is no accident if you pardon the expression, that Managers are now NOT expecting us to deliver in conditions that a few years ago they would have forced you out in! It is because they are responsible-and forget this 'Hobsons' choice thing of refusing a direct order from you manager--there is still, in this country, an accepted implication that we obey our Employers--and, beware if Mangagers are asking for volunteers--make sure you are covered by the company insurance, working voluntarily can change the emphasis from working on a compulsary basis, to you had a choice type sceanrio!

A very interesting point made "stokes" however this now implies that delivery office managers all around our 4 countries work in different ways and believe that Royal Mail have decided that if managers suggest to employees that only take your delivery out in these conditions we are currently facing only if you believe your delivery to be safe, which then suggests that if an incident/accident occours while performing said delivery then royal mail can then exonerate themselfs from blame as they have put the onus on you to risk assess your delivery, which will then mean no claim against the business could be made.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

A very interesting point made "stokes" however this now implies that delivery office managers all around our 4 countries work in different ways and believe that Royal Mail have decided that if managers suggest to employees that only take your delivery out in these conditions we are currently facing only if you believe your delivery to be safe, which then suggests that if an incident/accident occours while performing said delivery then royal mail can then exonerate themselfs from blame as they have put the onus on you to risk assess your delivery, which will then mean no claim against the business could be made.

Actually AFAIK only England and Wales share exactly the same legal system, Scotland and Northern Ireland have two sperate sytems, broadly similar but there are differences.

[stokes11eg]

Wolfie--Managers are already trying to absolve themselves, and lay the 'blame' of 'accidents 'incidents' at the posties feet! Again. I'd like to ask you how Managers are only now seemingly giving the Regular Postie the 'choice' of wether they work in these coditions or not--pound to a penny, if an accident occurs, then the Boss will come back with a ''Well, you had a choice' etc--maybe TBT could organise a poll to find out how many posties have had accidents or incidents so far in this weather, and what the response has been from Management.
And, yes, I am suggesting Management will use the 'we gave you a choice' etc, and they will use that as a cop out should an accident occur!