Cwu stand up and be counted

[Exrep]

Daz mate don't get me wrong im in no ways pointing any finger at local reps ,area,div reps ,the job they do is tireless,stressful and to be frank not worth the s**t that comes with the territory.

My problem lies at H/Q they choose to sit back and let chaos rule they cant say they have had no reports from the north east,scotland,manchester,stratford and the list grows weekly now to what its members are going through.

Its time for H/Q to grow a pair don the tin hat and come out fighting .On a personnel level i will never give a yes vote to anything the cwu recommends unless in the future i gain some trust back in them.

[post_bitch]

so why are u still paying subs

[TrueBlueTerrier]

so why are u still paying subs

probably for the same reason you stay working for rm. Basically in the hope that it'll get better.

[vanman]

TBH I think the union has let us down badly this time and unless there is a change in leadership we should all leave the union .

To what other union I cant not answer, don't get me wrong the CWU have done some good over the years and without those achievements our pay and conditions would be a lot worse.

Without us the CWU can not survive but at present they choose to ignore its members they are supposed to have a vetted interest in.

Are they not aware of the chaos that's being caused by the revision across the land recently implemented or do they not care.

I am now convinced Billy Hayes and Dingo Dave Ward know exactly what the future plans of R/M are and have known since this agreement was corruptly voted in.

If they didnt know why do they stand by and accept what R/M are doing at present with out fighting for us.

Sold down the river the cwu is dead I havnt spoken to one member who has a good word to say about the cwu, is this the reason Billy and Dave have vanished

Presumably from your name you once were a CWU rep - if so you should know that it's easy to make accusations without backing them up.

So that we can have a reasoned debate would you care to back up your assertion that "the agreement was corruptly voted in" - how?

What evidence have you that Billy, Dave or any of those at CWU HQ " ..stand by and accept what R/M are doing at present without fighting for us" - ? Were you in the room, writing the letters or listening to debate?

If you are pi**ed off with the CWU - fine, that's your right as a member, unlike those who've chosen not to be, but in the interests of proper debate - back up your accusations with facts.

[Exrep]

Presumably from your name you once were a CWU rep - if so you should know that it's easy to make accusations without backing them up.

So that we can have a reasoned debate would you care to back up your assertion that "the agreement was corruptly voted in" - how?

What evidence have you that Billy, Dave or any of those at CWU HQ " ..stand by and accept what R/M are doing at present without fighting for us" - ? Were you in the room, writing the letters or listening to debate?

If you are pi**ed off with the CWU - fine, that's your right as a member, unlike those who've chosen not to be, but in the interests of proper debate - back up your accusations with facts.

Correct I was rep until very recently and do you have any idea( if your not a rep yourself) what it is like trying to work with this dreadful agreement,and it was this agreement that i decided to resign,I do not agree with my union on this one. Being in R/Ms pocket aint for me.
I attended rather a few conferences were Dave and Billy were present these were conferences for local reps so you can imagine how many reps were present 100s.
We all voiced our opinions to Dave and Billy and in these conferences and not one rep who was in delivery could say there office was happy with what was offered.
But as we were told by our Glorious leaders "There is no plan B" accept what's on offer.
After the vote we attended rep meetings for our area in total about 30+ reps present mostly from the delivery side.
NONE of us could see how this deal was accepted as we all new how our offices felt about this deal and many reps from the meeting asked our branch to ask H/Q for re-ballot .
I chased ballot papers up for members who hadn't received a paper multiply that across the land how many papers didn't turn up .
Coincidence hey then there's the actual turn out come on some-things wrong somewhere another coincident.Obviously you want written fact well i have no written fact simples but I know something s fishy when it smells this bad.

I don't need evidence when it comes to Billy and Dave who idly stand buy and let R/M do what they are doing at present there silence speaks volumes .They are in R/Ms pocket and they have forgotten who they represent and fight for. You tell me were there fight has gone as i cant see or hear any fight alls i hear is them blaming everything at branch level and saying yes sir no sir and dance to R/Ms tune.

If that's for you buddy well then fine but it aint for me and everything is rosy in your D/O M/C is it.

[Exrep]

PostBitch im still in the union hoping soon we will have a new leader at the helm who will have our best interests at heart and not R/Ms.

And just because im pissed off with my union doesn't mean I have to leave it now does it.

Is that your answer to everything leave if you are not happy funnily enough my lino has said that to me rather alot lately but i wont say to you what i say to him you may or may not be offended.

Very strange comment leave WHY ?????????????????????????

I have a right to agree or disagree with my union and on this occasion I disagree simples

[vanman]

Good on you for replying the way you did.

Whilst I don't agree with conspiracy theories around ballot results, I do respect your right to your views.

I hope that even though you're no longer a rep, you still take an active role in the Union, because it's only if members do so that anyone higher up gets the message. If all disgruntled people do is have a go about the Union's failings on this site - nothing will change. Only by taking issues up through the Union can you alter anything.

By the way - everythings not right in my office either - this is as much to do with the Union's approach locally as nationally, but at the end of the day is down to the bullying tactics of management more than anything else.

[Exrep]

VanMan I remember like most of us do back in 90s standing on the gate many times in support of what our union was advising .

To me they were the days were our union had some gusto about them and i suppose in an ideal world neither party could continue the way we were and yes back then at times we were sold down the river.

I just want the union I joined to be strong again I don't want to slate them left right and centre given any opportunity but I truly believe they have lost touch with us at ground level.

It seems alls they are interested in at present is the BTA 2010 and really we need them now as you have said yourself to stop R/Ms bullying, harassing and intimidating tactics but there so pre-occupied with this new agreement its frightening .

Yes this is the biggest shake up any company in the UK has witnessed but that's no excuse to turn a blind eye to everything else that's happening.

Back in the 1990s Billy Hayes was our area rep and to witness him go from what he was and what he stood for then to now is disappointing to say the least.

May be im just blinkered but that's my opinion some will agree others wont.

I also believe a union should be separate from the company and not be in that companies pocket like at present the CWU are. A union is there to protect and defend its members to improve the working conditions of its members and to keep the employer in toe does the CWU feel like this to you ,it once did to me but not any more but im hopeful for the future.

Being a rep under this agreement I found to be rather embarrassing and impossible role and this was another contributing factor why I resigned,at least when we were at logger heads
with R/M we all new were we stood it was us and them.

Although im not the unit rep I still sit in on interview,stages with chaps in my office if requested ,I still challenge my DOMS when ever possible I still give them a hard time its just that im not official and really that could well be my down fall one day.

I just cant work with this agreement and I feel very let down the tools being used by R/M in this agreement are flawed and corrupted,the figures coming out of M/Cs are corrupted and when I was a rep I raised this issue with my DOM and branch and it feel on death ears. It seemed at times when I was saying it at meetings everyone was thinking "Here he goes again" but since re-signing as rep my DOM is challenging the M/C what a coincidence hey horse and bolted spring to mind and for me its to late to go back.

Anyway good luck for the future cos were going to need it.

[Big Daz]

EXRep

Politics is at play here Billy and Dave are using the BT2010 is roaring sucess and our mbrs are fully signed up to it argument to battle against RM sell off. One only has to read the debates on RM sell off in the House of Commons to see that staring back. I wonder if the MP's realise that the yes votes were less than half of the ballot papers despatched. Hardly the roaring mandate Billy and Dave want MP's to belive in.

As a current rep Im happy to implement major change with a decent mandate, but BT210 mandate at national and local level is weak. I have never seen a agreement lead to mbrs rejecting the CWU and going solo which has happened in my D.O just as it has with many others .

[clashcityrocker]

Big Daz you are right.
Billy and Dave had their eyes on another battle with the signing of this agreement. If we succeed in defeating privatisation once again then they will have been proved right. That is after all what we pay them for.
From their point of view that battle could not have been even fought without a "modernisation" plan in place.
"Collateral Damage" is always accepted by generals. Not so popular with the grunts though.

[fishtank]

I hope that even though you're no longer a rep, you still take an active role in the Union, because it's only if members do so that anyone higher up gets the message. If all disgruntled people do is have a go about the Union's failings on this site - nothing will change. Only by taking issues up through the Union can you alter anything.

Why is that vanman?
With a large,some would say overly large network of area reps,divisional reps,branch officials and various unspecified hangers on,,,you still prefer to lay the blame at the feet of the ordinary member.
Does no-one visit units anymore?
Does no-one communicate problems anymore?
Are they all suffering from "don't rock the boat" syndrome.
I have news for you vanman...ordinary members have no full-time release to play "flag it up to HQ"...they have real jobs and lives outside of Royal Mail...they have not a minute spare to idly chat about this and that.

The MOST important members in this union are not the part-time would-be politicians but the silent majority who take NO active role in the union....they give it the financial backing and the strength in numbers that it needs to fight the battles that it does.
These are the members who are drifting away because the union believes that if a problem hasn't been flagged up through the proper procedure.....it doesn't exist and therefore it doesn't need to be addressed.

[fishtank]

EXRep

Politics is at play here Billy and Dave are using the BT2010 is roaring sucess and our mbrs are fully signed up to it argument to battle against RM sell off.

Spot on Daz....so where does that leave us?
I'll give you a clue it's brown and sticky and it isn't a stick.

I have never seen a agreement lead to mbrs rejecting the CWU and going solo which has happened in my D.O just as it has with many others .

Spot on again Daz....so where does that leave us?
I'll give you a clue it's brown and sticky and it isn't a stick.

[Exrep]

I hate politics

[vanman]

The MOST important members in this union are not the part-time would-be politicians but the silent majority who take NO active role in the union....they give it the financial backing and the strength in numbers that it needs to fight the battles that it does.
These are the members who are drifting away because the union believes that if a problem hasn't been flagged up through the proper procedure.....it doesn't exist and therefore it doesn't need to be addressed.

Believe it or not I agree with you when you say the most important members are the silent majority, but that's the exact problem I highlighted. If more of the "silent majority" took an active role in the Union we would be the stronger for it.

"Active" doesn't mean becoming a rep or official, all it means is supporting whoever is prepared to do these roles, (whether on release or not, by the way), and in so doing giving them the ability to represent the membership to the employer and just as importantly through to the Union. This doesn't mean slavish support, but making sure the reps know what's really happening and backing them up when they try and represent the membership.

If the majority remains silent - all that happens is that those who make the noise get heard - as now. All you have to do is look at the ballot returns across branches and the country to see that.

After all the Union is only as strong as it's members.