why can r/mail leave people suspended

[norbert]

Why would you want to do either. Just look on it as a long paid holiday.

Some people worry themselves to death about things.
Imagine if you had a mortgage and children and you had no idea what was going on in the case.
And once RM suspend you they will try their damnest to make the charge stick otherwise they will be made to look fools themselves.
Apparently their is a bit of pressure on the investigating officer, if he/she charges you and the charges are later kicked out they can be disciplined themselves or so I have heard so it is in their interest to find you guilty. Your only defence is a good union rep, if he/she hears anything on the floor that can help your case the rep should bring it to the management. If the management hear anything that helps your case chances are they will not include it as evidence.
We are lucky in a way as RM has such detailed and precise conduct code guidelines, plenty of room for a manager to slip up.

The bit about pressure is interesting , I'm very inclined to believe it having read about contentious cases in areas / depots that RM have targeted .

Personnel will also close ranks as well to protect that charging manager .

[La Poste]

The bit about pressure is interesting , I'm very inclined to believe it having read about contentious cases in areas / depots that RM have targeted .

Where did you get this information if I may ask?
Are past cases available on the web?

Personnel will also close ranks as well to protect that charging manager .

Unfortunately some postmen join them. Especially the ones that think the management will look after them.

[looking in]

you name it really and its on my charge sheet,apart from w/delay..stealing/...and fighting,however its all a pile of the usuall trumped up stuff,they havn't even taking the time to cover their tracks,most annoying when you cant get a chance to prove your innocence,my fact finding went on longer than super sunday ie the time that 2 football matches take to be played

[La Poste]

most annoying when you cant get a chance to prove your innocence,my fact finding went on longer than super sunday ie the time that 2 football matches take to be played

Why couldn't you get the chance to prove your innocence?
Surely they gave you the opportunity to speak.

[norbert]

The bit about pressure is interesting , I'm very inclined to believe it having read about contentious cases in areas / depots that RM have targeted .

Where did you get this information if I may ask?
Are past cases available on the web?

Personnel will also close ranks as well to protect that charging manager .

Unfortunately some postmen join them. Especially the ones that think the management will look after them.

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=13934" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BJZlg2Swjw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/wdp/news ... ticle.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.cwu.org/justice-for-the-bristol-three..html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know what sort of postmen you mean , the favoured sons , company men , " friends " - amazing how their memory is suddenly restored after a appeal has gone in .

One went after armed robbers once

[norbert]

you name it really and its on my charge sheet,apart from w/delay..stealing/...and fighting,however its all a pile of the usuall trumped up stuff,they havn't even taking the time to cover their tracks,most annoying when you cant get a chance to prove your innocence,my fact finding went on longer than super sunday ie the time that 2 football matches take to be played

http://www.pagan-network.org/forums/ind ... 06.10;wap2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RM surpassed themselves here , they got hammered in the Tory Papers too . ( Holden v RM PLC IT )

Ironically ! - if they did want to play the PC / Right - on card & save the world , you'd find a lot of far right groups have Paganism links - Nazism is a classic case in point to replace conventional religion - that's not to say all paganists are .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odinist_Fellowship" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I've also seen a lot of anti - Semitic stuff about but that's " cultural " & managers wearing England / Union Jack cufflinks / ties to " wind people up " .

I don't agree with how Donald went about it . A shouting at in a office would have sorted that out instead of the usual three part melodrama that RM specialise in

It can be Al-sops Fables or Enid Blyton , everything is purely to impress to a predetermined conclusion and they get over excited about brownie points and lay things on too thick with more holes than a tramp's sock and start patting themselves on the back as to how " clever " they've been .

More Fool them

[royalmailchat]

Suspension from work
While the disciplinary or dismissal issue is being looked into, your employer may be able to suspend you. You should be told why you are being suspended.

If your employment contract allows you to be suspended without pay, your employer can do so, so long as they are acting reasonably. If your employment contract does not say that your employer can do this, your employer may still be able to suspend you, but with pay. To make it clear that this isn't a punishment, the suspension will be on full pay in most cases.

You keep your employment rights while suspended. If you don't get the right pay you may be able to make a claim to an Employment Tribunal for 'unlawful deduction from wages'.

While suspended, you may be told not to talk to other employees, customers and/or suppliers. If this stops you defending yourself, it may be grounds for appeal. It is up to you whether you listen to this but your employer may take further disciplinary action if you don't.

[looking in]

most annoying when you cant get a chance to prove your innocence,my fact finding went on longer than super sunday ie the time that 2 football matches take to be played

Why couldn't you get the chance to prove your innocence?
Surely they gave you the opportunity to speak.

mate no opportunity to speak my side,just answer the 100+ questions they had,any question i returned was answered with "this is a fact finding interview"

[La Poste]

Not to belittle your situation but these fact finding interviews make me laugh. Management like to think they are sooo important when asking the questions like they have just been made a police officer or solicitor overnight.
Just make sure you keep cool and don't lose your head. Your conduct in the interview will be used as a way to judge you in the end. If you behave aggressively they will use this fact against you. Be sugary sweet, butter wouldn't melt in your mouth and all that.
Most of these under achieving puffed up managers love this little power game, it makes them feel important.
And be very careful with the notes before you sign them, make sure you are happy with them. If you feel you need to amend them then do so and try to get your rep to agree with your amendments if you can.
RM often leave anything that could make them look embarassed or wrong out of the notes so read them thoroughly.

[norbert]

Not to belittle your situation but these fact finding interviews make me laugh. Management like to think they are sooo important when asking the questions like they have just been made a police officer or solicitor overnight.
Just make sure you keep cool and don't lose your head. Your conduct in the interview will be used as a way to judge you in the end. If you behave aggressively they will use this fact against you. Be sugary sweet, butter wouldn't melt in your mouth and all that.
Most of these under achieving puffed up managers love this little power game, it makes them feel important.
And be very careful with the notes before you sign them, make sure you are happy with them. If you feel you need to amend them then do so and try to get your rep to agree with your amendments if you can.
RM often leave anything that could make them look embarassed or wrong out of the notes so read them thoroughly.

It is a farce - RM couldn't investigate a pound coin down a sofa . Everything is dictated from on high to a predetermined outcome purely to impress . They like coloured highlighting pens too . Some of them have definitely watched too much telly / too many films - It's not real - you know .

The notes do get " sanitised " - be very careful

[looking in]

Not to belittle your situation but these fact finding interviews make me laugh. Management like to think they are sooo important when asking the questions like they have just been made a police officer or solicitor overnight.
Just make sure you keep cool and don't lose your head. Your conduct in the interview will be used as a way to judge you in the end. If you behave aggressively they will use this fact against you. Be sugary sweet, butter wouldn't melt in your mouth and all that.
Most of these under achieving puffed up managers love this little power game, it makes them feel important.
And be very careful with the notes before you sign them, make sure you are happy with them. If you feel you need to amend them then do so and try to get your rep to agree with your amendments if you can.
RM often leave anything that could make them look embarassed or wrong out of the notes so read them thoroughly.

It is a farce - RM couldn't investigate a pound coin down a sofa . Everything is dictated from on high to a predetermined outcome purely to impress . They like coloured highlighting pens too .

The notes do get " sanitised " - be very careful

agreed norbert but once again we keep coming back to what are our reps doing about the problems we the members are encountering,i know if this goes to a tribunial i will win(a fact bourne out by the area rep)so why do our high union officals not get involved NOW,instead of leaving their members sitting in the house worrying

[norbert]

Not to belittle your situation but these fact finding interviews make me laugh. Management like to think they are sooo important when asking the questions like they have just been made a police officer or solicitor overnight.
Just make sure you keep cool and don't lose your head. Your conduct in the interview will be used as a way to judge you in the end. If you behave aggressively they will use this fact against you. Be sugary sweet, butter wouldn't melt in your mouth and all that.
Most of these under achieving puffed up managers love this little power game, it makes them feel important.
And be very careful with the notes before you sign them, make sure you are happy with them. If you feel you need to amend them then do so and try to get your rep to agree with your amendments if you can.
RM often leave anything that could make them look embarassed or wrong out of the notes so read them thoroughly.

It is a farce - RM couldn't investigate a pound coin down a sofa . Everything is dictated from on high to a predetermined outcome purely to impress . They like coloured highlighting pens too .

The notes do get " sanitised " - be very careful

agreed norbert but once again we keep coming back to what are our reps doing about the problems we the members are encountering,i know if this goes to a tribunial i will win(a fact bourne out by the area rep)so why do our high union officals not get involved NOW,instead of leaving their members sitting in the house worrying

The only action I've seen is motions to conference about RM's CofC / B&H procedure being corrupt and a sham . Probably too embarrassing for them as they agreed to it , at best RM did not go along with the Spirit of the Agreement ; at worst the goalposts were moved to a field in the next town and perverse interpretations were put on matters by RM Senior Mgt who operate at the legal limit at best .

Over to you - CWU - missed a few tricks here

[looking in]

cheers norbet,i for one will never lie down to the way iv been treated,im at this moment waiting on a call from union h/q,i wish i could spew out all the alledged charges here but alas i cant as iv been warned about confidentiality ironic fact is the time ive been with r/m i could have did 2 murders and been out walking the streets yet i am not allowed to share my grievances with work colleagues

[La Poste]

I've been thinking about this confidentiality bit for a while now. Who is it supposed to protect?
It certainly protects RM if they do something they shouldn't and it makes your defence more difficult as you are not supposed to talk to anyone at work about it.
RM are selective in their use of witnesses and in choosing what they consider relevent to the case. They may well dismiss any evidence that comes from a witness to support you and then keep you in the dark about it.
Good reps are worth their weight in gold and we need them to ask on the floor if anyone can support you.
Also you can be sure that someone from the union or management are reading threads on this website.
Whatever you write on the internet is there forever.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

It should also protect the person who is being investigated in a perfect world.

I am not totally sure if ETs come under it but in law there is a term "Pre-Judicie" or it could be "sub Judicie" whichever one it is basically a trial or tribunal can be dismissed out of hand if it is proved that witnesses have been contacted to discuss their statements or evidence, other than by court approved responsible persons.