meeting with Union today with delivery staff

dundee · Post by **dundee** » 04 Feb 2016, 18:41

Dingo,I appreciate the info you give on here,not having a go mate,I like many other are very worried with what royal mail have planned,All we ask for is some clarity from cwu on what we do to combat this,most in my office are buggered after 4.30 delivery,never mind 6.What in your opinion would be a good realistic deal?

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 04 Feb 2016, 19:26

dundee wrote:Dingo,I appreciate the info you give on here,not having a go mate,I like many other are very worried with what royal mail have planned,All we ask for is some clarity from cwu on what we do to combat this,most in my office are buggered after 4.30 delivery,never mind 6.What in your opinion would be a good realistic deal?

There is clarity, and dingo mentioned it earlier, the ir framework, any changes proposed for your office that the office doesn't like then get the rep to lodge a stage 1 disagreement and follow the ir process,

you say most of your office are buggered after 4.30, end of the day that delivery span is what your office agreed to, you had a choice of duty structures when your revision went in and could have opposed it then. there are offices out there that didn't agree to that and still have 3.5hr deal span, in fact I know of one office that categorically has a 2.5hr delivery span, their ft to pt ratio is atrocious but the staff keep objection to increase span and do that by agreeing more indoor workload prepping 3 or 4 part time duties rather than increasing span

Pompey Boy · Post by **Pompey Boy** » 04 Feb 2016, 23:03

fishtank wrote:I was under the impression that we already did get paid for the hours we work, If what you're saying dingo is that Royal Mail really believe there are a vast amount of unproductive hours that can be clawed back from delivery by strapping an RFID to staff they are living in a fantasy world and if the union buys into this so are they. This is what comes of living your life through spreadsheets and computer programs, you become a little detached from reality.

Did anyone from the union stand up and question the validity of these base presumptions or did you all just sit there nodding away, I would have fallen off my chair...laughing. I have a 39 hr contract, each week I make myself available for 39 hrs of work, If you're saying that Royal Mail want to introduce a contract where the computer tells me how many hours I'm getting paid for then the only question I can ask is why didn't you big brave union men and women (I hope) stand up at that point and walk out because I'm f***ing sure I would and will given the chance.

Pompey Boy · Post by **Pompey Boy** » 04 Feb 2016, 23:09

dingo wrote:Take it from someone has been a rep through countless disputes and led a lot and seen senior Managers presents proposals at similar briefing of course to some it would be great to ask these managers questions and shout at them at a briefing in front of 2500 other reps get a round of applause and leave with a smile on your face ! You really think those Directors who work to even more senior Directors will listen ?

The National Briefing was purposely designed to ensure that all reps were brought up to speed on the issues facing all of us so we can all start consulting with the members on the issue which need their input !

The policy forum means that Branch's and Divisions can form policy for any negotiations. Nothing will be imposed as they simply can't in line with the legal IR framework.

So the question is would you want an 100 questions to RM managers which they bat away and believe me I have had these both the RM strategy Presntation twice before and the Production control before and had heated debates with them over both. Sometimes the only message they listen too is when the membership and the Union Unites !

Let's face it If the employer asked the membership do you want to work 9-5 or 6-3 they would understand the views quite strongly !

To some of you the union seems to be the enemy but every you have from paid reliefs , leave entitlement , weekly pay , sick pay , start and finish times , less than 6 day working , pensions , no complusory redundancies etc have not been given by Royak Mail they have been fought for by the CWU and the members !

Dingo what I don't understand is why the CWU aren't saying to RM that we are all shareholders and have rights as such. We could all vote against Moya etc before the AGM and CWU could ask the questions that we want answered at the AGM

Pompey Boy · Post by **Pompey Boy** » 04 Feb 2016, 23:19

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:
Or it's a symptom of the Union wanting to be included in decisions, which is fine but not at any cost. One of the true values of the CWU should be to represent its members and ask the questions members want. If the CWU agreed to no questions then they have abrogated one of the tenents of being a Union.

Even worse though if it was a CWU HQ decision when RM was willing to be questioned, that would be unbelievable.

The problem for us at Pompey is that the reps are always in meetings about the migration to SOMC so are difficult to get to see. Perhaps we should have extra reps who aren't part of the day to day stuff.

We are being kept in the dark about important things - apparently our reps could be sacked if they break the NDA. EVRs for the distribution drivers has gone from 13 to zero to 15 in the space of a few weeks. Meanwhile WTL sessions tell us nothing, other than Sunday SAs at SOMC won't include travel money.

We are all shareholders and if CWU don't use the AGM to get answers we need to question them...........or perhaps it will be too late by then

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 05 Feb 2016, 08:14

- apparently our reps could be sacked if they break the NDA.

Someone's spinning you a line. Why would management tell the union reps something which they didn't want spreading about? More like your reps know nothing but want to appear as if he/they are important enough to be in the loop.

tpost · Post by **tpost** » 05 Feb 2016, 09:17

This is as Dingo states a 5 year plan which will see RM move to mainly a parcel business. The 6 hour delivery plan is obviously a scare tactic to get what RM wants, people buying down hours and VRs among older staff. Our spans are 4 hours in my office so basically 10 jobs gone or you can buy down and have a shorter delivery span.As an ex rep I believe that there would be a stampede by older staff to leave the business or take buy downs. I know the CWU try to avoid VRs and buy downs to preserve jobs but we have to be realistic the removal of indoor work is going to have a huge impact on delivery. The best the CWU can do is get the best deal for the staff that are left but I have no doubt this business will have a lot more part time jobs in the future.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 05 Feb 2016, 12:05

Pompey most reps get asked to sign a non disclosure form when handling a business case on a closure and normally it is concerning things in commercial plan which if it got our could impact on the sale of a building etc.

However whilst a rep can't reveal certain costings or who is intrested in buying etc they can inform the members of the general membership of what is going on.

I have dealt with several closures and have always met the members in meetings and communicated with them.

At the end day when Royal Mail decide to close a Mail centre they normally do after all it is then who pay for the building. For me it is not about protecting bricks and mortar it is about protecting the people by getting the best people's solutions for them.

Pompey Boy · Post by **Pompey Boy** » 05 Feb 2016, 13:00

Tman wrote:
- apparently our reps could be sacked if they break the NDA.
Someone's spinning you a line. Why would management tell the union reps something which they didn't want spreading about? More like your reps know nothing but want to appear as if he/they are important enough to be in the loop.

Tman I trust our reps. The NDA applies to the "migration" to SOMC and the closure of POMC. Didn't agree with it, but then apparently CWU would have been left out had they not signed it. It seems that local management are using the NDA to cover other issues.

Pompey Boy · Post by **Pompey Boy** » 05 Feb 2016, 13:16

seems we can only dream of VRs

Chelseablue · Post by **Chelseablue** » 05 Feb 2016, 14:43

How many of us would take vr? I'd be tempted.

motherhubbard · Post by **motherhubbard** » 05 Feb 2016, 15:13

Chelseablue wrote:How many of us would take vr? I'd be tempted.

I think the question might be - how many of us are facing compulsory redundancy?

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 05 Feb 2016, 15:16

Chelseablue wrote:How many of us would take vr? I'd be tempted.

Taking VR is a big decision and only really makes any sense if you have a clear and viable plan b, at the end of the day all we're looking for from our union is a sustainable fair day's pay for a fair day's work, that should not be beyond the collective wit and wisdom of several highly paid national officers and their "policy advisors".

Some things need to be clear though, we need to first find out what royal mail really want and I don't mean this wishlist of fantasy and foolish nonsense. If this is a genuine 5 year plan it's a suicide note for the business.

Longer deliveries based on their present form are a non starter and don't give us any bollocks about "methods", both the business and the union have failed with the transition to new methods once already and local management Have discouraged their use right from the start.

Post by **Jiries** » 05 Feb 2016, 15:43

Chelseablue wrote:How many of us would take vr? I'd be tempted.

I would join the party as I got plans to go to Canada and hoping for VR to come to play at HWDC as many staff want this place closed and it going to close anyway doe to leasehold expiring in 2020 but front line staff have to go much earlier only the engineers will stay behind to remove all the machines, it took them 4 years to build before the mail centre opened.

Anyone know what going to happen to HWDC?

Post by **halfull** » 05 Feb 2016, 16:06

i would take vr, fish saying vr is ok if you have a plan b is a weird one as with that mind frame you will be stuck in this horrid job forever as you are far too deep in this job & whats going on with it to take yourself outside of the box to even imagine looking or thinking about another job/career.
Sometimes you have to step away,take time to think with a totally clear mind so you can make better decisions & thats where i & many others are going with the hope of vr.
The stress of just wanting to get away from this job now & in the future could make you leave on awful job to jump right into one as bad or even worse! I would snap up a good vr offer with both hands, walk away & find another career/job, this used to be a job for life but its nolonger thats job, anyone who stops in this longterm now will suffer the consequences physically & may end up not being able to work at all.
The company 100% will not stop until they have EVERYTHING they want, they know the union is getting watered down & weaker year on year with all the 20 hour people starting & fulltimers going, 20 hour workers will not join the union let alone strike! they dont even get £200 after tax! The union has stood by & watched their own members & membership go down the toilet too worried about upsetting a company that has walked all over them & its workers for the last 4 years.
Our union will not pull back what has happened to this once glorious job, its all about damage control for aslong as they can hold off the inevitable, never a mention of sorting out the current workload that is destroying the workers body's, the fight was lost along time ago im afraid, its taken me along time to accept this but i have, thats why id love a good vr offer! Get out while i can & live life happy & most of all healthy!