Deal or no deal

[Silly Sarah]

How many more final deadlines are we likely to have to endure?

None because by law it cannot be extended again,this is the maximum allowed

Yeah I know, it was a rhetorical question...but thanks anyway

[egor110]

egor - that statement is from last week

Even so the date clearly says 27th so was it a typo or did both sides know last week no deal would be done today?

[Rennie]

I would rather wait, however long it takes, for the right deal, rather than have something now that is not quite right....
If that makes sense? so on Monday (the final final final day) it will either be right, totally right or we will be on strike.
It is a s simple as that. No more messing about!!
Lets hope it's the right deal, for all our sakes.......

[Cut Off King]

I told you earlier 7 days extension but not a unanimously decision.

No: 771/13 Ref: 21003 Date: 20th November 2013


To: ALL POSTAL BRANCHES


Dear Colleague

NATIONAL DISPUTE

The Postal Executive has today met and received a comprehensive report on the current state of play in national negotiations.

As a result it was unanimously agreed to accept a new offer from Royal Mail to extend the ballot for the final 7 days that is permissible in law, to allow negotiations to continue and reach an agreement.

Although progress has continued to be made and a new closed pay offer has been tabled, there remain difficult areas to resolve.

The Unions Postal Executive will meet again on Monday 25th November 2013 to further consider the detailed position and determine whether Industrial Action should be announced.

Any enquiries on the content of this LTB should be directed to the DGS (P) Department.


Yours sincerely



Dave Ward
Deputy General Secretary (P)

So who's telling the truth, my money's on Dingo telling the truth.

[Desperate_Dan]

I'm actually genuinely shocked that people on here are actually surprised about the way these negotiations have panned out thus far.

Why would anyone think that the senior level of the CWU in 2013 would use the strong backing of it's members?

The senior level of the CWU has been out of touch with it's paying members for the last 6-7 years.

Their form for negotiating national agreements for their paying members over the last few years has been pathetic.

Why would 2013 be any different?

Any member of the CWU who thought in 2013 they weren't going to get s**t on from an almighty height are living with the unicorns.

Maybe I have jumped the gun and there is some 'deal of the century' lurking in the very near future but you know what, I'll happily take bets from now until doomsday that the winners in any future agreement will be the CWU.

Their previous form is a lot to be desired.....

[egor110]

'I'll happily take bets from now until doomsday that the winners in any future agreement will be the CWU'

Really? I and thousands like me who thought they did a s**t job with the 2010 deal but were prepared to give them another chance will be voting with there feet and leave the cwu. now waht good is a union without members?

[aiden01]

so dingo who is telling the truth about the decision that was made you or dave ward it was either unaminous or it was,nt. personally I believe you.

[clashcityrocker]

egor - that statement is from last week

Even so the date clearly says 27th so was it a typo or did both sides know last week no deal would be done today?

The ballot was valid until the 27th.
That means CWU would have to have given notice today (7 days notice) if we were to take strike action on 27th.
It didn't say talks had already been extended for another week.

[hubbahubba]

Although at first this seems to be a joke,if you think about it you should give the CWU the benefit of the doubt(despite the 2010 mess).

From what we are led to believe,all the major issues are about sorted,the only sticking point being deliveries.

The CWU could of probably come to a deal to put to the members for a vote that would of gone along the lines of,1.improved pay offer,2.5 year protections,3.some form of backpay and/or lump sum,4.Ongoing talks on delivery issues,BUT it seems they want to nail down a deal for DO's before agreeing anything,which surely is to be commended if that is the case?

We should know by next week,lets hope so...

[egor110]

Although at first this seems to be a joke,if you think about it you should give the CWU the benefit of the doubt(despite the 2010 mess).

From what we are led to believe,all the major issues are about sorted,the only sticking point being deliveries.

The CWU could of probably come to a deal to put to the members for a vote that would of gone along the lines of,1.improved pay offer,2.5 year protections,3.some form of backpay and/or lump sum,4.Ongoing talks on delivery issues,BUT it seems they want to nail down a deal for DO's before agreeing anything,which surely is to be commended if that is the case?

We should know by next week,lets hope so...

Deliveries are the major issue, they have the biggest problems and more staff do delivery than any other branch.

[fishtank]

BUT it seems they want to nail down a deal for DO's before agreeing anything,which surely is to be commended if that is the case?

The problem as I see it hubba is that the members have no idea what the "delivery issues" mean.There has been zero official comms on what exactly the union is looking for and why and there is a real danger that the membership has completely misunderstood what is being discussed and any agreement on deliveries will be met with blank stares followed by anger.

As far as I can make out the main thrust of the delivery talks seems to be about getting RM to stick to previous agreements,tightening up the use of resourcing tools and reigning in some of the more excessive usage of absorption.

There will be no huge shift in Royal Mail's position on deliveries so no matter what the outcome the delivery side of this agreement is likely to go down like a lead balloon and if members perceive that what has delayed a resolution for a month and perhaps stopped them receiving back pay and lump sums before Christmas has been a complete waste of time then it will lead to more disengagement.
What we don't need is more empty promises from Royal Mail.

[Desperate_Dan]

'I'll happily take bets from now until doomsday that the winners in any future agreement will be the CWU'

Really? I and thousands like me who thought they did a s**t job with the 2010 deal but were prepared to give them another chance will be voting with there feet and leave the cwu. now waht good is a union without members?

Exactly....I'll take bets from now until doomsday that the winners in any future agreement will be the CWU.....

...hence I'll be in the money because the CWU will never be the winners in any agreement....

[mr hil.]

nope i dont give a fcuk about their bonus

Trouble is, their will be plenty of people who do. In our office people were talking about coming in to get the £300 last time. If it is RM do try to make the case of not working during Christmas pressure, so not getting Christmas bonus, I think it will sway a lot of people to break a strike

This was taken from a post on here about the Christmas bonus....

For each day (counted midnight to midnight, excluding Bank Holidays) on which an employee takes official industrial action the supplement for the ENTIRE UNIT will be abated by 3%

For each day (counted midnight to midnight, excluding Bank Holidays) on which an employee takes unofficial industrial action the supplement for the ENTIRE UNIT will be abated by 10%

Taken from this thread Xmas Bonus

So even it's only one on the gate (perhaps just the reps to preserve the ballot) then the entire unit loses part of it's Christmas Bonus!

[pcb]

No if the rep takes action it's the rep who loses the days pay!
Give the negotiators a bloody chance if negotiations take longer so be it!
Apparently everyone is biting at the bit to get on the street, but for how long would they be willing to stand outside the gate? Be realistic!

Xmas coming up
Slow January and February ( ideal time if they want to break the union). Keep everyone out! Remember we are a private company now!
Remember delivery have always had the numbers in votes, so in the end it will be delivery who decide period!

[Danelectro]

It seems some are not willing to accept the possibility that Royal mail have given no concessions and their main aim is to break the union.Its strange that the promise of a legally binding agreement which you would think would be the sticking point is apparently in the bag and bread and butter issues for fair workloads in deliveries cannot be agreed.It says to me that the legally binding agreement will be under attack every step of the way and Royal Mail are confident that it can be broken.As far as I can see we have got nothing and to think that the CWU can have any meaningful influence in a privatised Royal Mail without the constant threat of strong IA is wishful thinking.