Textbook

[savo]

80 hours to be taken out of our office ( mainly rural and a few town walks )

We reject the first proposed plan......

We are then given another proposal, which is worse than the first one, and told that if we dont agree to one of them by end of Feb, they will just impose something and we will probably lose even more hours...

Result: we have a quick meeting, majority vote for option 1, some for option 2 and a few abstain as they are not given option to reject both options. So collectively we have just rolled over and surrendered....

Of course the usual platitudes are spoken, we will all start on time, take meal breaks blah blah blah, but the usual crowd will ignore this, and we wonder why the job is going to the dogs ( rapidly )

[DGP1]

There should not have been a vote without the option to completely reject the proposals (I now say no to everything management want on gereral principle).

[the one]

our union has been told to refuse everything, let them prove first that it is achievable, then do the job properly

80 hours to be taken out of our office ( mainly rural and a few town walks )

We reject the first proposed plan......

We are then given another proposal, which is worse than the first one, and told that if we dont agree to one of them by end of Feb, they will just impose something and we will probably lose even more hours...

Result: we have a quick meeting, majority vote for option 1, some for option 2 and a few abstain as they are not given option to reject both options. So collectively we have just rolled over and surrendered....

Of course the usual platitudes are spoken, we will all start on time, take meal breaks blah blah blah, but the usual crowd will ignore this, and we wonder why the job is going to the dogs ( rapidly )

[not me]

shouldnt have voted
if they want to bring it in then on their backs be it

[london sub]

Same scenario in our office too. Unfortunately our office has came to exec action, and has resulted on the royal mail deciding what goes. The union are against the proposels and are asking members to ballot for a strike...this could be anything from an hour or two, even half a day. People that were in the last strike thought we had it tough...this time around i think the union and members are going to find it even tougher to come to some sort of agreement.

Had an idea, as we are starting next week with these new 3.5 hr delivery walks i was going to print off this >>

http://www.cwu.org/uploads/documents/HS ... e-Reps.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

to all the staff and hopefully they will get the message this time around. If they don't then there bloody stupid!

[andy2007]

80 hours to be taken out of our office ( mainly rural and a few town walks )

We reject the first proposed plan......

We are then given another proposal, which is worse than the first one, and told that if we dont agree to one of them by end of Feb, they will just impose something and we will probably lose even more hours...

Result: we have a quick meeting, majority vote for option 1, some for option 2 and a few abstain as they are not given option to reject both options. So collectively we have just rolled over and surrendered....

Of course the usual platitudes are spoken, we will all start on time, take meal breaks blah blah blah, but the usual crowd will ignore this, and we wonder why the job is going to the dogs ( rapidly )

It seems to be a recurring theme: Back when Phase 3 of the Pay and Modernisation Agreement was about to be brought in. We were given a vote, on how to handle the removal of the early finishes. The options were:
1) Get rid of the early finishes immediately.
2) Phase them out, over several months.

There was no option to refuse both, and negotiate a much smaller "Flirt". Which is possible, via the Local Agreements part of the Pay and Mod.

I think that the idea of these yes, or yes, Ballots. Is so that when it all goes wrong. The Managers can blame us, for voting for it.

[stokes11eg]

There should not have been a vote without the option to completely reject the proposals (I now say no to everything management want on gereral principle).

Yes. not only do I say no, I make it clear that I vote for NO proposals, unless I have them in writing first.How
often have they changed in the telling?? And, just for the record,everyone has a right to be notified in writing of any changes that take place, and this should be within one month of taking place, this is a legal obligation on Managent, and if they have failed to do this during all the recent changes-they have broken the law.
I would urge everyone to google up the dept. of enterprise, and regulatory reform, in particular the section on changes to contracts of employment.

[Spedley]

We are then given another proposal, which is worse than the first one, and told that if we dont agree to one of them by end of Feb, they will just impose something and we will probably lose even more hours...

I'm with the majority of replies, you have no option but to let them do what they want so vote on neither and make it clear you all object to both proposalls (for sensible reasons). Any failure after that is 'I told you so' from you rather than 'you voted it in' from them.

[NewPostieUK]

We were given a vote, on how to handle the removal of the early finishes.

What do you mean by early finishes?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

We were given a vote, on how to handle the removal of the early finishes.

What do you mean by early finishes?

Don't forget Andy is not on deliveries he works in an RDC. Still a postie though

[savo]

Thanks for the replies

I was one of the few that abstained as i wanted to be able to vote against both proposals, but the majority didnt

80 hours dosnt sound that much in comparison to other threads on here, but we are quite a small office, 20 rurals, 7 towns, couple of packet and collection duties, then the usual cover duties and reserves...

Hopefully i will be lucky and get VR, if not i will try to get buy down to 20 ( thats what our town walks will become - just come in and pick up the bags )

[andy2007]

We were given a vote, on how to handle the removal of the early finishes.

What do you mean by early finishes?

Don't forget Andy is not on deliveries he works in an RDC. Still a postie though

Yes that's right. But in Deliveries, you used to be able to finish early, if you were fast enough. There was a lot of opposition to being forced to work ALL your contracted hours. We had a similar arrangement in the RDCs (and presumably in the MCs too).

According to Phase 3 of the Pay and Mod., everyone should by now be working every hour they are paid for. Unless there is a Local Agreement to the contrary. Although that hasn't happened everywhere yet. But although there is a difference in how it's implemented. My point was: There seems to be a developing trend, towards being given a choice. Between implementing Management porposals, or a slightly watered down version of them. But not having any option, to ask our Reps to go back to the negotiations, and try again.

[stokes11eg]

We were given a vote, on how to handle the removal of the early finishes.

What do you mean by early finishes?

Don't forget Andy is not on deliveries he works in an RDC. Still a postie though

Yes that's right. But in Deliveries, you used to be able to finish early, if you were fast enough. There was a lot of opposition to being forced to work ALL your contracted hours. We had a similar arrangement in the RDCs (and presumably in the MCs too).

According to Phase 3 of the Pay and Mod., everyone should by now be working every hour they are paid for. Unless there is a Local Agreement to the contrary. Although that hasn't happened everywhere yet. But although there is a difference in how it's implemented. My point was: There seems to be a developing trend, towards being given a choice. Between implementing Management porposals, or a slightly watered down version of them. But not having any option, to ask our Reps to go back to the negotiations, and try again.

You are not really being given a 'choice'they are trying out different work patterns-- mainly to see if they can finally bring in the 'Individual contract' that the Dept. of trade and industry have been slowly but surely working towards for ten years. In 1999, the spelled out their plans---in the not too distant future. like it or not, we will all be working'individual;
hours, within the same company--this has been happening in Europe for some time now-and it is the way things are being engineered.