WHEN IS 38hr CONTRACT NOT A 38hr CONTRACT?

superports · Post by **superports** » 04 Oct 2018, 17:47

Rotating day off, longs and shorts.
Depending what day we are off, over the 6 week cycle we have :
4 weeks of 37.46hrs
1 week of 38.36hrs
1 week of 38.20hrs.

DIM says the short weeks cancel the longer weeks out, but, my point is they only cancel them out IF we finish on our time EVERYDAY, and we know that won't happen. Also taking a week off further complicates the issue.

My query is this - I'm not happy having a 38hr contract and being told to work over 38hrs, can RM insist I do?

number one · Post by **number one** » 04 Oct 2018, 17:51

superports wrote:Rotating day off, longs and shorts.
Depending what day we are off, over the 6 week cycle we have :
4 weeks of 37.46hrs
1 week of 38.36hrs
1 week of 38.20hrs.

DIM says the short weeks cancel the longer weeks out, but, my point is they only cancel them out IF we finish on our time EVERYDAY, and we know that won't happen. Also taking a week off further complicates the issue.

My query is this - I'm not happy having a 38hr contract and being told to work over 38hrs, can RM insist I do?

It’s really not worth getting your knickers in a twist

arnold cheshire · Post by **arnold cheshire** » 04 Oct 2018, 17:55

superports wrote:Rotating day off, longs and shorts.
Depending what day we are off, over the 6 week cycle we have :
4 weeks of 37.46hrs
1 week of 38.36hrs
1 week of 38.20hrs.

DIM says the short weeks cancel the longer weeks out, but, my point is they only cancel them out IF we finish on our time EVERYDAY, and we know that won't happen. Also taking a week off further complicates the issue.

My query is this - I'm not happy having a 38hr contract and being told to work over 38hrs, can RM insist I do?

Sounds ok

centenaryman · Post by **centenaryman** » 04 Oct 2018, 17:58

DIM says the short weeks cancel the longer weeks out, but, my point is they only cancel them out IF we finish on our time EVERYDAY, and we know that won't happen

But we are only contracted for 38 hours......so anything over is overtime....so I suppose ya dim is right....
its up to you if you work over....and agree extra payment for it

we have different length duties so a Tuesday is a shorter day than a weds or thur......but it does ish even out over 6 weeks

scoobymunster · Post by **scoobymunster** » 04 Oct 2018, 18:13

You're lucky to have a rotating day off. I can imagine a few of your FT reserves end up working more of the weeks over 38 hrs, and less of the 37.46hrs meaning they aren't fully paid for their hours.

Jefferson Starfish · Post by **Jefferson Starfish** » 04 Oct 2018, 19:31

superports wrote:Rotating day off, longs and shorts.
Depending what day we are off, over the 6 week cycle we have :
4 weeks of 37.46hrs
1 week of 38.36hrs
1 week of 38.20hrs.

DIM says the short weeks cancel the longer weeks out, but, my point is they only cancel them out IF we finish on our time EVERYDAY, and we know that won't happen. Also taking a week off further complicates the issue.

My query is this - I'm not happy having a 38hr contract and being told to work over 38hrs, can RM insist I do?

It's averaged out over the 6 week cycle. Your figures add up to 228 hours over those 6 weeks, divided by 6 = 38 hours per week.

Anything worked over your duty time on any given day should be paid as overtime.

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 04 Oct 2018, 19:46

To the OP, it’s a great question, one I would love to see tackled from a purely legal perspective, purely out of academic interest;

If a postie works 38 hours on a given week, and then refuses all work thereafter, and RM try to - let’s go extreme - dismiss for breach of contract, what would happen?

There is no breach, no?

Post by **Navalron** » 04 Oct 2018, 21:11

That is a good question. A lot of people get working tax credits and housing benefit. Even by earning a pound or two more in salary can mess the claim up. The new UNIVERSAL CREDIT coming to Glasgow in 3weeks is MENT to absorb this and let you keep more of your earned money. Aye right. Problem is that the computer system (actually two) which were purchased at 1.8billion pounds, so far, don't actually work correctly yet ,they can't deduct.

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 04 Oct 2018, 21:22

Yeah basically, I’m not sure this whole “you gotta go over 38 hours this week cos it averages out mate” would stand up in court.

Someone tell me I’m wrong. No citation and I’m saying I win.

Post by **97gaz** » 04 Oct 2018, 21:25

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 04 Oct 2018, 21:29

97gaz wrote:
superports wrote:Rotating day off, longs and shorts.
Depending what day we are off, over the 6 week cycle we have :
4 weeks of 37.46hrs
1 week of 38.36hrs
1 week of 38.20hrs.

DIM says the short weeks cancel the longer weeks out, but, my point is they only cancel them out IF we finish on our time EVERYDAY, and we know that won't happen. Also taking a week off further complicates the issue.

My query is this - I'm not happy having a 38hr contract and being told to work over 38hrs, can RM insist I do?
Im not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you complaining that you have to work 36mins and 20 mins extra on two weeks out of six and work less than your contract hours for the other four weeks?

When is a 38hour contract not a 38hour contract? Four weeks out of every six it would appear.

I think his point is kinda what I’ve put in my post above yours. It’s like an academic chat rather than a moan; makes a lovely change.

Is this nationwide system legally sound, or is everyone just hoping no one really tests it out?

superports · Post by **superports** » 05 Oct 2018, 00:48

The point I'm trying to make is we now have a 38 hour contract, when I asked my dim how can they force me to work over my contract, ie the 38.36hr and 38.20hr weeks, he said its evened out by the under 38hr weeks. In theory, yes, it does. In reality however it doesn't, in that it only needs 14 minutes of overtime to mean that my 38hr contract is just wishful thinking.
Our office has brought in the shorter week by adjusting times but there is no difference to the workload, they're just hoping we suck it up and people continue to come in early.
I'm sorry if some people think this is trivial, maybe it is to some, but it's the principle for me. We were promised a shorter working week, all I see is instead of 38hrs, is 38hrs plus overtime.
Several of my colleagues have left the union because of this, I would too, but I foresee bullying, harassment and being taken off my duty when I wish to work only my contracted hours.

Post by **97gaz** » 05 Oct 2018, 10:14

postmanzach · Post by **postmanzach** » 05 Oct 2018, 17:10

Not an answer but how we do it is: 2 weeks we work a few hours over, 2 weeks a few under and it averages out. Over when we have a rest day on Wednesday or Thursday. Then under on the other two weeks we get Friday and Saturday or Monday and Tuesday off. I love it long weekends now the best bit about the job.

postmanzach · Post by **postmanzach** » 05 Oct 2018, 17:14

The ‘higher efficiency’ thing ain’t gonna happen far as I can see. If all managers stopped cooking the books in all her little ways, and started paying everyone correct the real figures be showing a fall in efficiency which is what I see is going to be happening. Bubbye shares