PDA actuals query.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 26 Apr 2018, 18:02

Our DOM can't find out the answer to the following question so we are going to wait and see if our Union rep can find an answer at the conference. So I'll put it up here just in case anyone knows:
Will the PDA actuals data be collected based on each walk or collated based on each individual postie ?

When you start to think about this it opens up a whole can of worms and will potentially cause a lot of upset & trouble.
Say for example the data is collected based on each walk with a view to making all walks fair and equal duty lengths. A walk may get adjusted based on how one of the superhumanly fast Postie's does the walk. Then another postie who is maybe older or just slower might have to do that adjusted walk and find it isn't possible to complete.
The alternative method of collating data based on each individual postie is also likely to cause upset depending on how it is used.

Post by **wacko74** » 26 Apr 2018, 18:26

I did read somewhere on here that you can tell when your PDA is being monitored as you get the 3 second delay with the beep after scanning an item... the only days my PDA has had this 3 second delay have been the very light days, mon or tues.

Funny how they don't seem interested in monitoring our progress on the average/heavy days.

DGH · Post by **DGH** » 26 Apr 2018, 18:31

I suspect in the end it may be both.

They'll look at the walks and how long the variance is between shortest and longest completions but they'll also look at individuals in the same way. A lot of potentially interesting data could be thrown up by considering both.

However I have absolutely no faith in RM's ability to consider data in any rational manner. If they did there would, in my view, be very little issue. Sad to relate though, the organisation is either ignorant of or chooses to ignore elementary statistical rules when it comes to their use of data (for instance a walk with 850 delivery points is obviously more likely to generate complaints than one with 650, yet RM focus only on the aggregate total of complaints not the average over the DPs; further assessing complaints on a weekly basis is infantile as the variance is quite obviously very high and the sample size small. Over a year it might be more reasonable).

I have no idea whether RM are deliberate in their misuse of statistics or just ignorant but it's quite pathetic in either case.

dids620 · Post by **dids620** » 26 Apr 2018, 19:05

Call me cynical but I don't think it will matter. RM will take the info, move a few decimal points then throw them in RM's special own numeric randomiser. If they don't like the figures, they will sprinkle it with unicorn semen until it says we can do more work in less time and call it a "trial" as part of the agreement.

centenaryman · Post by **centenaryman** » 26 Apr 2018, 19:12

were going into a revision based on the old way of equalising walks....ye right some walks will be more even than others....

anyway

weve been told if the revision comes in before sept/oct ish that's what will happen...
if it doesn't get passed it will be down to "pda actuals" and the union seem to think its the last thing we`ll want.
in future all revsions will be done through the pda they tell us.

number one · Post by **number one** » 26 Apr 2018, 19:45

Why do I keep telling people the same thing? They can make your walk huge, massive, gigantic... They could give you 5000 drops but.....you have a start time and a finish time!!!! Why people get so hung up on “they’ll make the walk bigger” Don’t let it worry you!!

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 26 Apr 2018, 19:53

number one wrote:Why do I keep telling people the same thing? They can make your walk huge, massive, gigantic... They could give you 5000 drops but.....you have a start time and a finish time!!!! Why people get so hung up on “they’ll make the walk bigger” Don’t let it worry you!!

But if you currently finish two hours early every day and manage to fit in some overtime into your contracted hours, of course you are going to be worried.
Some posties are potentially going to lose 5 - 10 grand a year with the introduction of PDA actuals.

Remember - we are all equal but some parts of the UK are more equal than others.

number one · Post by **number one** » 26 Apr 2018, 19:56

clashcityrocker wrote:
number one wrote:Why do I keep telling people the same thing? They can make your walk huge, massive, gigantic... They could give you 5000 drops but.....you have a start time and a finish time!!!! Why people get so hung up on “they’ll make the walk bigger” Don’t let it worry you!!
But if you currently finish two hours early every day and manage to fit in some overtime into your contracted hours, of course you are going to be worried.
Some posties are potentially going to lose 5 - 10 grand a year with the introduction of PDA actuals.

Remember - we are all equal but some parts of the UK are more equal than others.

I am one of those you described but you just play the game. Always a way to earn overtime in Royal Mail.

dids620 · Post by **dids620** » 26 Apr 2018, 22:53

number one wrote:Why do I keep telling people the same thing? They can make your walk huge, massive, gigantic... They could give you 5000 drops but.....you have a start time and a finish time!!!! Why people get so hung up on “they’ll make the walk bigger” Don’t let it worry you!!

Totally agree. But the making of duties bigger is the start of B&H to get the work done. Prevention is better than the cure. Make deliveries realistic then no need for B&H.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 27 Apr 2018, 05:26

I bet if all walks were timed with no unpaid work done before duty time begins and everyone taking their full break time that the majority of walks would not be able to be completed within paid duty time. This is where RM is now. How we fix this is the problem. Our union rep said to us yesterday, that with the implementation of PDA actuals, everyone should now realise this is the end of the 'job & finish' culture. We now all will have to 'work to rule' effectively.

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 27 Apr 2018, 14:04

Celgar wrote:I bet if all walks were timed with no unpaid work done before duty time begins and everyone taking their full break time that the majority of walks would not be able to be completed within paid duty time.

I think you have a very little prejudiced view of Royal Mail.
If the revision is done properly then there is no reason why the duties cannot be completed in the allocated duty span.
If there is a credible indoor work plan which ensures people can leave the delivery office on time then there is no reason why etc etc.

If you don't have either of those things then you need to look to your union representatives who had the opportunity to be fully involved in both.

I have worked in 4 delivery offices over the past 20 years and outside of Christmas I have only needed to book extended or cut off on a handful of occasions.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 27 Apr 2018, 14:59

DGH wrote:I suspect in the end it may be both.

If it is then under the data protection act you will be entitled to the data they hold about you.

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 27 Apr 2018, 16:42

Initially, PDA data will just provide managers with another excuse to document what they are documenting. Another excuse for them not to go out and do delivery work and put pressure on delivery staff to complete.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 27 Apr 2018, 17:19

postslippete wrote:Another excuse for them not to go out and do delivery work and put pressure on delivery staff to complete.

Managers shouldn't be doing deliveries anyway. If they are then higher up might cut their budget because they'll think that a DO has got enough hours/staff

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 27 Apr 2018, 17:32

SpacePhoenix wrote:
postslippete wrote:Another excuse for them not to go out and do delivery work and put pressure on delivery staff to complete.
Managers shouldn't be doing deliveries anyway. If they are then higher up might cut their budget because they'll think that a DO has got enough hours/staff

I agree the major problem with DOMs doing delivery is the negative effect on future budgets. It is nice to have a DOM who is willing & able to help with delivery occasionally though. It does seem the majority of DOMs are generally lazy or incapable of doing so or are more interested in cutting down a rainforest via endless streams of RM paper propaganda. If you get a good DOM hold on to them for dear life and hope you don't get a rubbish one as replacement.