Duty being taken off me- where do I stand officially please

Supermac0151 · Post by **Supermac0151** » 28 Mar 2018, 09:17

So the manager has decided to make the office lapse and has earmarked my walk to be taken off me and broken up as required. I know for a fact if any other senior members faced this they would cause hell...where do I stand with this? Surely it can't be right for me to have a walk then just be stripped and put as a reserve? It makes a mockery of seniority to coz there'll be a bunch of people way down the seniority list with actual duties etc. I just want to know if anyone can tell me of any official route they have to take or if I can actually contest it? Many thanks all

Post by **woody38** » 28 Mar 2018, 10:15

Supermac0151 wrote:So the manager has decided to make the office lapse and has earmarked my walk to be taken off me and broken up as required. I know for a fact if any other senior members faced this they would cause hell...where do I stand with this? Surely it can't be right for me to have a walk then just be stripped and put as a reserve? It makes a mockery of seniority to coz there'll be a bunch of people way down the seniority list with actual duties etc. I just want to know if anyone can tell me of any official route they have to take or if I can actually contest it? Many thanks all

Sorry son nothing u can do the same thing happened to me a few years ago, I. never went on that walk again apart from 2 weeks at Christmas, tried the Union everything’nothing they would do for me.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 28 Mar 2018, 10:50

find out why they selected your duty.

If the reasons make sense such as its close to the office or fairly central to the rest of the duties, then nothing.

What I would also ask though is what has happened to change the previous Lapsing Duty

P13 · Post by **P13** » 28 Mar 2018, 11:20

The office I work in lapsing duties are identified before anyone signs for them , if you sign for one of them then you are aware you may be taken off them.

Post by **woody38** » 28 Mar 2018, 12:37

They flex/lapse more duties we have 2 all year round except Christmas but summer period they flex more last year it was 3 this year I heard it’s 4 or maybe 5 if they can get away with it, don’t know why they bother flexing at all really because most of it never goes out the office. My job is to take the flex what the postie can’t do, they leave so much sometimes Iam out 5 or 6 hours.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 29 Mar 2018, 13:07

Supermac0151 wrote:So the manager has decided to make the office lapse and has earmarked my walk to be taken off me and broken up as required. I know for a fact if any other senior members faced this they would cause hell...where do I stand with this? Surely it can't be right for me to have a walk then just be stripped and put as a reserve? It makes a mockery of seniority to coz there'll be a bunch of people way down the seniority list with actual duties etc. I just want to know if anyone can tell me of any official route they have to take or if I can actually contest it? Many thanks all

That happened in our office years ago. A senior postie was moved off his walk which was immediately outside the sorting office so it made sense logically. The senior postie then took the walk I was on as he knew how to do it already. I got moved onto another walk that was free I think as another postie had resigned. So I suggest maybe asking if you can take one of the other walks if you are above them in the seniority list. It will cause additional bad feeling of course. I wasn't too happy at the time about being forcibly removed from a walk but I am still on that walk so it ended alright in the end.
DOMs do have the right to move posties to other walks or even other offices miles away at any time for operational reasons apparently. They generally don't like to though as it upsets the applecart.

ThatsNotPlumb · Post by **ThatsNotPlumb** » 29 Mar 2018, 16:34

Celgar wrote:That happened in our office years ago. A senior postie was moved off his walk which was immediately outside the sorting office so it made sense logically. The senior postie then took the walk I was on as he knew how to do it already. I got moved onto another walk that was free I think as another postie had resigned. So I suggest maybe asking if you can take one of the other walks if you are above them in the seniority list. It will cause additional bad feeling of course. I wasn't too happy at the time about being forcibly removed from a walk but I am still on that walk so it ended alright in the end.
DOMs do have the right to move posties to other walks or even other offices miles away at any time for operational reasons apparently. They generally don't like to though as it upsets the applecart.

When a duty has been scrapped, the person that owns that duty being done away with, even if they are the most senior person in the DO/MC, can't take whatever duty they want right then & there, even more so if the person currently on the desired duty actually signed for it at the last re-sign/opening.

The only way you could be put off it, would be is if the person on the walk didn't actually sign for it & is/was a floater/reserve that's just 'sitting on it'.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 29 Mar 2018, 22:40

ThatsNotPlumb wrote:
Celgar wrote:That happened in our office years ago. A senior postie was moved off his walk which was immediately outside the sorting office so it made sense logically. The senior postie then took the walk I was on as he knew how to do it already. I got moved onto another walk that was free I think as another postie had resigned. So I suggest maybe asking if you can take one of the other walks if you are above them in the seniority list. It will cause additional bad feeling of course. I wasn't too happy at the time about being forcibly removed from a walk but I am still on that walk so it ended alright in the end.
DOMs do have the right to move posties to other walks or even other offices miles away at any time for operational reasons apparently. They generally don't like to though as it upsets the applecart.
When a duty has been scrapped, the person that owns that duty being done away with, even if they are the most senior person in the DO/MC, can't take whatever duty they want right then & there, even more so if the person currently on the desired duty actually signed for it at the last re-sign/opening.

The only way you could be put off it, would be is if the person on the walk didn't actually sign for it & is/was a floater/reserve that's just 'sitting on it'.

What I wrote did happen to me. I was quite a few years ago when we still had bike deliveries. It goes to show as others have experienced that rules in RM can be broken by RM or the CWU and you can often do little to stop it.

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 29 Mar 2018, 23:22

Celgar wrote:
ThatsNotPlumb wrote:
Celgar wrote:That happened in our office years ago. A senior postie was moved off his walk which was immediately outside the sorting office so it made sense logically. The senior postie then took the walk I was on as he knew how to do it already. I got moved onto another walk that was free I think as another postie had resigned. So I suggest maybe asking if you can take one of the other walks if you are above them in the seniority list. It will cause additional bad feeling of course. I wasn't too happy at the time about being forcibly removed from a walk but I am still on that walk so it ended alright in the end.
DOMs do have the right to move posties to other walks or even other offices miles away at any time for operational reasons apparently. They generally don't like to though as it upsets the applecart.
When a duty has been scrapped, the person that owns that duty being done away with, even if they are the most senior person in the DO/MC, can't take whatever duty they want right then & there, even more so if the person currently on the desired duty actually signed for it at the last re-sign/opening.

The only way you could be put off it, would be is if the person on the walk didn't actually sign for it & is/was a floater/reserve that's just 'sitting on it'.
What I wrote did happen to me. I was quite a few years ago when we still had bike deliveries. It goes to show as others have experienced that rules in RM can be broken by RM or the CWU and you can often do little to stop it.

Two types of rules.

Rules that clear mail.

Rules that don’t clear mail.

That distinction is the most important to make. Application turns on this.

ThatsNotPlumb · Post by **ThatsNotPlumb** » 30 Mar 2018, 17:22

Celgar wrote:
ThatsNotPlumb wrote:
Celgar wrote:That happened in our office years ago. A senior postie was moved off his walk which was immediately outside the sorting office so it made sense logically. The senior postie then took the walk I was on as he knew how to do it already. I got moved onto another walk that was free I think as another postie had resigned. So I suggest maybe asking if you can take one of the other walks if you are above them in the seniority list. It will cause additional bad feeling of course. I wasn't too happy at the time about being forcibly removed from a walk but I am still on that walk so it ended alright in the end.
DOMs do have the right to move posties to other walks or even other offices miles away at any time for operational reasons apparently. They generally don't like to though as it upsets the applecart.
When a duty has been scrapped, the person that owns that duty being done away with, even if they are the most senior person in the DO/MC, can't take whatever duty they want right then & there, even more so if the person currently on the desired duty actually signed for it at the last re-sign/opening.

The only way you could be put off it, would be is if the person on the walk didn't actually sign for it & is/was a floater/reserve that's just 'sitting on it'.
What I wrote did happen to me. I was quite a few years ago when we still had bike deliveries. It goes to show as others have experienced that rules in RM can be broken by RM or the CWU and you can often do little to stop it.

I don't doubt that for a second, "rules/agreements" are broken left, right & centre in RM.

My understanding of it is if the duty you've signed for is scrapped or absorbed by other duties permanently, then it's just bad luck & you are basically a reserve until the next re-sign or until the next vacant walk opens up. They can't just have any duty they want just because they've some seniority over the person on it, unless you're willing to give it up & move or as I say, if the person on the desired duty doesn't actually 'own it'.. which is common as in the last year or so in my DO they actually started listing the vacant duties on a notice board every month that people can sign for, some of which had people on them for over year & they never actually owned the duty.

Ozzvaldo · Post by **Ozzvaldo** » 30 Mar 2018, 17:50

I got booted off a fairly easy HCT duty immediately outside the office for the same reason about 3 years ago. I wasn't particularly happy about it, but just had to to get on with being a reserve until something else came up for me to apply for. I had well over 20 years service in when it happened, and I'm not one who backs down from arguing with the management when required, but my union rep (who's pretty good in my opinion) advised me that they were within regulations to do so.

Don't stew over it, it really isn't worth the stress.

Patti-Ann · Post by **Patti-Ann** » 30 Mar 2018, 20:27

I'm a long time postie (nearly 40 years) and top of the seniority list. I cut off most days, as I find the five hour delivery span long enough without doing extra on top. I job share and am currently on my week off. Last week my line manager said they might try to 'find me a shorter duty'. Reading this thread it seems they can't just put me onto one (if someone has already signed for it), so it seems I'll either get a duty that no-one else wants or be made into a reserve and shifted about. Now you've got me worried for when I go back next Thursday.

After all these years I don't want to be moved about like a chess piece

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 30 Mar 2018, 21:00

Patti-Ann wrote:I'm a long time postie (nearly 40 years) and top of the seniority list. I cut off most days, as I find the five hour delivery span long enough without doing extra on top. I job share and am currently on my week off. Last week my line manager said they might try to 'find me a shorter duty'. Reading this thread it seems they can't just put me onto one (if someone has already signed for it), so it seems I'll either get a duty that no-one else wants or be made into a reserve and shifted about. Now you've got me worried for when I go back next Thursday.

After all these years I don't want to be moved about like a chess piece

It’s an interesting point; does operational need allow moving someone because it “reduces the chance of a cut off which we can’t cover”

If so, then the scope really is wide. They might as well just be honest and say we can move whoever, whenever.

This is the sort of thing I wish the union would secure. Clarification. Something to point to on the floor. I never get what I want boohoo

mr hil. · Post by **mr hil.** » 03 Apr 2018, 11:58

I thought that if a duty holder was unable to complete his delivery within its time then either the duty had to be re-timed or the duty holder should receive "coaching" to enable him to reach an acceptable performance level. If after coaching the duty holder was still not up to speed they could be dismissed!!!! The crux of all this is that there are no official standards for delivery recognized by the union and RM so any measurement can not be used as evidence of poor performance (Except the 1 minute prep test I think) so you can not really be dismissed for being slower....or can you??

Patti-Ann · Post by **Patti-Ann** » 03 Apr 2018, 12:49

mr hil. wrote:I thought that if a duty holder was unable to complete his delivery within its time then either the duty had to be re-timed or the duty holder should receive "coaching" to enable him to reach an acceptable performance level. If after coaching the duty holder was still not up to speed they could be dismissed!!!! The crux of all this is that there are no official standards for delivery recognized by the union and RM so any measurement can not be used as evidence of poor performance (Except the 1 minute prep test I think) so you can not really be dismissed for being slower....or can you??

I'm slower because I'm over 60 - surely it would be unfair dismissal to get rid of me for not being able to go at the speed I used to