Double duty

[vastus35]

What hope do we have when idiots do a shared van duty on there own. This guy has done a deal with the lino, where he will do both duties, gets paid an extra 3 hours, but it only takes him an hour longer cos he runs, yes, runs round. The union rep ,linos, & dim all know whats going on but do nothing. They must surely be guilty of assisting in fraud or stealing hours. Any thoughts ??

[LaggyBand]

I believe when it comes to ghosting, no one really knows what would happen if it got all legal, as it's never been tested.

[Postie45]

yeah its fraud if hes finishing earlier than booked hours. I believe you can file a grievance being that you are working your hours for basically less than he is and its unfair, and that could well stop it as it would have to be logged, the union wont do anything until that point if hes a member.

[LaggyBand]

So is it fraud if postie says, "lino I'll do that half delivery for three hours but it'll take me two" and lino says "yes I accept those terms"?

[Postie45]

So is it fraud if postie says, "lino I'll do that half delivery for three hours but it'll take me two" and lino says "yes I accept those terms"?

yes - by both of them

[LaggyBand]

So is it fraud if postie says, "lino I'll do that half delivery for three hours but it'll take me two" and lino says "yes I accept those terms"?

yes - by both of them

Interesting. But ghosting seems to be so pervasive up and down the country. Has even one person, management or postie, been done for it?

Also, does this mean that someone paid for eight hours, but finishes in seven, is in a similar position?

I'm not arguing against you here by the way, just genuinely curious as to how this works technically.

[kingeric]

Ghosting isn't fraud.

Scaremongering going on here.

If a manager says "x duty has 4 hours attached to it. I'll give you 4 hours to do it" then it's done in 2 hours then that's life some are quicker than others.

Fraud is if a manager says "do x duty and let me know how long it took you so I can pay you." Then you book 4 hours but it takes you 2 hours.

Going off that reckoning there's thousands of us fraying the company every day we go home early and get paid the full day.

[LaggyBand]

Hence me having the lino say "I accept those terms", to bring forward the crux of the matter.

[number one]

It's not fraud at all. It's an agreed payment for the work undertaken. If it was fraud everybody who finishes before their paid finish time would be guilty of it.

[Postie45]

if there isnt sufficient workload for people to work in their duty time then RM has allowed them to go home, as in theres nothing else for them to do so whats the point of having people stay there twiddling their thumbs. Whats not supposed to happen (but does all the time) is people coming back to the office and going home when theres still work that could be done and yes, that would also be seen as fraud too.
But in the end it depends what RM want to enforce, and that doesnt mean at line manager level or even DOM level, theyre also answerable to IB if people are being overpaid OT with the manager being complicit, the manager saying something like "he wouldnt do 2 hours work for 2 hours pay so i had to give an incentive" would put that manager in as much sh!t as the postie.

[Postie45]

If a manager says "x duty has 4 hours attached to it. I'll give you 4 hours to do it" then it's done in 2 hours

for an SA yes, for general OT no. Youve bought into what RM culture has been in the past, not what could be officially thrown at you if RM so chose.

[Kings Norton]

What hope do we have when idiots do a shared van duty on there own. This guy has done a deal with the lino, where he will do both duties, gets paid an extra 3 hours, but it only takes him an hour longer cos he runs, yes, runs round. The union rep ,linos, & dim all know whats going on but do nothing. They must surely be guilty of assisting in fraud or stealing hours. Any thoughts ??

What's stopping you doing the same? You seem bitter because a man is trying earn a extra crust. I suggest you look after your own duty and stop looking at what others are doing...

[vastus35]

Just to be clear, the lino did the deal & the runner takes advantage. He also starts 2hrs early most days. Seems to me there all taking advantage. Bottom line, this guy has been told many times by many people that he costing jobs & giving management reasons to impose lapsing on other walks. Unfortunately, him & others in the office who start early & work during annual leave simply don't listen. The irony of all this, is that the majority of the people responsible are union members. I can assure you I don't care who does what to who, but one day all these people will come a cropper & everyone in the office will suffer as a result. Will the dim & lino offer support & sympathy on the day he trips up while running & suffers a serious injury ? We all know the answer to that one.

[Kings Norton]

Just to be clear, the lino did the deal & the runner takes advantage. He also starts 2hrs early most days. Seems to me there all taking advantage. Bottom line, this guy has been told many times by many people that he costing jobs & giving management reasons to impose lapsing on other walks. Unfortunately, him & others in the office who start early & work during annual leave simply don't listen. The irony of all this, is that the majority of the people responsible are union members. I can assure you I don't care who does what to who, but one day all these people will come a cropper & everyone in the office will suffer as a result. Will the dim & lino offer support & sympathy on the day he trips up while running & suffers a serious injury ? We all know the answer to that one.

For one that don't care you still seem very interested in this runner and the DOM/LINO If he falls not your problem. Don't stress out over somebody else's problems. Good Lad.

[raymod]

3 hours extra pay for doing two rounds. No thank you. Lino has mugged him off