Two Drivers on Shared Van Delivery

SierraOscarBravo · Post by **SierraOscarBravo** » 11 Mar 2017, 18:35

If you have two drivers working together on a shared van/park and loop delivery with one of those drivers doing the passenger loops are they allowed to share the driving or must it only be the driver who signs for the van and fills in the log book? I ask because I suspect this is happening in my office.

centenaryman · Post by **centenaryman** » 11 Mar 2017, 19:48

1 worker signs for the van,,,,,soooooo does the driving.

suspect....

I concentrate on my own duty

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 11 Mar 2017, 19:53

Theoretically both can drive the van, however, the log book needs to completed each time the drivers change*, and at a minimum the daily checks have to carried out each time.

*This is not an operational requirement, its a legal requirement.

stevyh · Post by **stevyh** » 11 Mar 2017, 21:23

Only the one driver who signed the van out should drive incase of speeding tickets ect

scoobydo79 · Post by **scoobydo79** » 11 Mar 2017, 23:18

If You sign for the van then You drive the van

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 12 Mar 2017, 16:25

We all know what "Should" happen in RM, but I've worked in a few Delivery Offices where both Posties are Drivers and they both drive the vehicle. Normally Leapfrogging the walking partner whose got a LWT and then reversing the procedure. It works.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 12 Mar 2017, 19:54

Dorset Plodder wrote:We all know what "Should" happen in RM, but I've worked in a few Delivery Offices where both Posties are Drivers and they both drive the vehicle. Normally Leapfrogging the walking partner whose got a LWT and then reversing the procedure. It works.

But what happens when they get pulled over by the old bill and the one who isn't signed in the log book at the current driver is the one driving at the time?

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 12 Mar 2017, 20:33

SpacePhoenix wrote:
Dorset Plodder wrote:We all know what "Should" happen in RM, but I've worked in a few Delivery Offices where both Posties are Drivers and they both drive the vehicle. Normally Leapfrogging the walking partner whose got a LWT and then reversing the procedure. It works.
But what happens when they get pulled over by the old bill and the one who isn't signed in the log book at the current driver is the one driving at the time?

It's never happened. They've cut over 2000 Police Officers in the last few years, they've hardly enough time to catch proper criminals. If it did would the Police know to check the Log Book? What happens if they pull them over and say, "Are you Jones"? and Postie Smith simply says, "Yep that's me".

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 13 Mar 2017, 13:20

Dorset Plodder wrote:
SpacePhoenix wrote:
Dorset Plodder wrote:We all know what "Should" happen in RM, but I've worked in a few Delivery Offices where both Posties are Drivers and they both drive the vehicle. Normally Leapfrogging the walking partner whose got a LWT and then reversing the procedure. It works.
But what happens when they get pulled over by the old bill and the one who isn't signed in the log book at the current driver is the one driving at the time?
It's never happened. They've cut over 2000 Police Officers in the last few years, they've hardly enough time to catch proper criminals. If it did would the Police know to check the Log Book? What happens if they pull them over and say, "Are you Jones"? and Postie Smith simply says, "Yep that's me".

He will be asked to prove it and the police know we carry Identity Cards. As he will have committed an offence of "perverting the cause of justice" which is considered a serious and honesty offence, for the sake of doing the job properly the driver will in most likelihood be sacked.

The reason why I state this, is the police can only stop vehicles if they believe, or have reasonable suspicion that an offence is being committed, so if they have pulled you over, they already think they have something on you.

They won't be bothered by the log book, well until you give them a reason (like lying), but a driver misrepresenting who he is because of the log book is only digging a deeper hole for themselves. Its more of a case if you have a bump, even if its not your fault, and the police become involved, they'll want to know who the driver is, and if he had permission to drive. Name not in the log book could be considered lack of such permission.

Its a minefield. Do the driving job properly and your relatively untouchable.

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 13 Mar 2017, 14:11

Dorset Plodder wrote:
It's never happened.

What happens when a speed camera goes off or a RM vehicle is snapped in a bus lane - who is going to pay the fine if nobody actually knows who was driving?
And RM has a legal responsibility to know.

redneck · Post by **redneck** » 13 Mar 2017, 17:31

Until something happens which requires a driver to prove he wasn't driving, nothing will change in this office. Driver swapping is the norm here. And something will go wrong eventually.

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 13 Mar 2017, 17:41

I hear what you're saying TBT & Clash. I'm not defending it, or advocating it, simply saying it's a widespread practice. Like a lot of things in Royal Mail it shouldn't happen, but unfortunately, for a lot of people, it's human nature to do something until you learn the hard way. I suspect that as always the pressure to finish early and cut corners is at the root of it.

kingeric · Post by **kingeric** » 13 Mar 2017, 19:33

Can someone show me where it is a legal requirement? I'm not convinced it is.

For vehicles 7.5t and over it is a requirement because of tachograph hours. But these little vans under 3.5t are no different to cars.

As long as you are insured and have permission to drive the vehicle I don't think there's a problem. If there is an accident or speeding ticket the owner of the vehicle will be asked to supply the details of the driver at the time and the signing in/out procedures we have will put a name forward but I'm not sure that it is an actual legal requirement to keep changing names in the log book every time a driver changes.

DB1100 · Post by **DB1100** » 13 Mar 2017, 19:37

Police in our area walk past people smoking jazz cabbage on a daily basis,people drinking booze in no drinking area's aren't stopped,youths riding around on motorbikes with no helmets and folks walking pitbulls don't get stopped,so I think you are pretty safe driving around in a rm van as long as it's taxed.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 14 Mar 2017, 16:56

kingeric wrote:Can someone show me where it is a legal requirement? I'm not convinced it is.

The Log book requirement is contractual for the driver - and therefore failing to complete could be considered Gross Misconduct, especially if Royal Mail are hit with a Section 172 Notice - Failing to Identify the Driver.

The driver, and indeed the passenger could both be considered guilty of an offence under this section if they fail to, or cannot identify who was driving at the time that the Section 172 Notice applies. Unless of course someone was willing to take the fall because their name was on the Log Book, but they weren't actually driving. At least that's my interpretation of this

http://www.motorists-lawyer.co.uk/conte ... .rhtm.rhtm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It’s worth knowing a bit about the relevant legislation. Section 172(2) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 creates the obligation to provide information, and a failure to do so is known as a “Section 172 offence”. Knowing how to deal with these notices or summonses is very important.
The power to request details of the driver on a particular occasion is given to a chief officer of police and is invariably delegated to a department in each Constabulary which will issue them in their many hundreds. It’s an automated process, but it has to be carefully recorded to establish service on the keeper.

The power becomes exercisable where the driver of a vehicle is alleged to be guilty of an offence to which Section 172 applies. It applies to most road traffic offences, and then draws a distinction between what the “registered keeper” must do and what “any other person” must do. How you respond depends on which category you fall into.

“The person keeping the vehicle shall give such information as to the identity of the driver as he may be required to give”.

“Any other person shall if required give any information which it is in his power to give and may lead to the identification of the driver”
Section 172(3) provides that a person who fails to comply with a requirement shall be guilty of an offence.