Over shoulder bags

Chewster · Post by **Chewster** » 06 Mar 2016, 17:53

Noticed a few people on here passively mention that we're not really supposed to have bags over our shoulder any more? Anyone able to tell me what the actual rules surrounding bags are?

worktotime · Post by **worktotime** » 06 Mar 2016, 19:35

no carrying bags unless there is a reason built into your duty log why you cant use the method , use working methods ie lwts etc as the agreement btw r/m and cwu .

matthew68 · Post by **matthew68** » 06 Mar 2016, 20:41

worktotime wrote:no carrying bags unless there is a reason built into your duty log why you cant use the method , use working methods ie lwts etc as the agreement btw r/m and cwu .

a guy in our office carries 2 bags on his loops and runs just to get ot nothing said by management cause he is saving them money . God knows what's wrong with people like him cause long term you are doing yourself in

Post by **IloveMYredTROLLEY!** » 06 Mar 2016, 22:02

My understanding is that you can only use a pouch on your should if delivering to a block of flats, where you deliver to multiple stories. The pouch contents should weigh less than 5Kg, which might well result in you having to go and replenish at your vehicle or HCT and return to the block of flats.

If leaving your HCT unattended, you can only do so for up to 10 minutes and it must be locked to an immoveable object.

Post by **Anonymouse** » 06 Mar 2016, 22:18

I recently moved to my local office and no one uses trolleys there. Think there are only about 5 functioning ones to go round an office of 40-odd anyway

mancpat · Post by **mancpat** » 06 Mar 2016, 22:30

A new guy has started at our office recently and when I asked him about his induction at the mail centre he said one of the things he was shown was how to wear a bag on his shoulder.

So if it's not allowed nobody is telling those doing the training.

Slightly off topic but my induction was over a week or 3 days when I started and we were shown everything in depth and told all about special deliveries etc. When I took the new lad out the other week he had no idea what a special was in terms of importance or 1pm times.

When I went into my office all those years ago I was fully informed of everything. No wonder new staff leave so quickly. The training they're receiving is poor now.

Chewster · Post by **Chewster** » 06 Mar 2016, 23:18

Thanks for the info folks. Seems totally counter productive to be told not to wear a bag. I've seen myself carrying a 20 odd kg bag over my shoulder when needs must...doms fully aware of it too. The rules on the trolleys obviously make sense (not that everyone follows them).

And mancpat, when I started just over a year ago, I got a one day induction at the nearest mail centre, shown how to carry a bag, push a york, things like that, got taught about specials and stuff too. Obviously I didn't get taught EVERYTHING in one day but I feel I was stood in pretty good stead. Now, whenever we get new staff, they get the induction in our office over 3 or 4 days instead of the one, and somehow they seem to be taught even less! Whether that's down to doms or workplace coaches being a bit sub par, or the "curriculum" itself, who knows

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 06 Mar 2016, 23:56

what the doms "ignore" doesnt mean they wont pull you up on it if it causes a problem. If you injure yourself and you were carrying a 20kg bag, the DOM will deny any knowledge of it and maintain you shouldnt have been carrying such bags. All these shortcuts people take are fine 99.9% of the time, but when something goes wrong dont expect the managers to be on your side when theyre trying to protect their own arse. I know from experience the 0.1% events do happen eventually... so enjoy taking the shortcuts while you can.

Chewster · Post by **Chewster** » 07 Mar 2016, 00:17

You're right, I'm sure my time will come in regards to taking shortcuts. Over shoulder bags though, I've never been told not to wear them. Admittedly I WAS told they had a weight limit of 11kg I think it was so I would have been on my own with the 20kg example (over Christmas of course), but if I hurt myself as a result of carrying a bag of less than 11kg, then surely I can't really be held to blame for doing something that I've been taught and told to do since day 1?

Post by **IloveMYredTROLLEY!** » 07 Mar 2016, 05:51

Chewster wrote:You're right, I'm sure my time will come in regards to taking shortcuts. Over shoulder bags though, I've never been told not to wear them. Admittedly I WAS told they had a weight limit of 11kg I think it was so I would have been on my own with the 20kg example (over Christmas of course), but if I hurt myself as a result of carrying a bag of less than 11kg, then surely I can't really be held to blame for doing something that I've been taught and told to do since day 1?

If I remember those long gone days correctly, before Delivery Methods revision, you could have one pouch of up to 16Kg and the rest up to 11Kg.

Delivery Methods scrapped those weight limits around 2010.

Carrying a pouch was only supposed to be for exceptional circumstances from that point on, to protect OPGs' long term health, for example most blocks of flats are not designed to allow OPGs to push their LWT or HCT around the building.

So for these exceptional situations, a 5Kg pouch weight limit was put in place, as another rule to be ignored by many OPGs while blind eyes and pressure was often applied by linos regarding walks taking too long and messing up the depot budget.

Chewster · Post by **Chewster** » 07 Mar 2016, 07:50

IloveMYredTROLLEY! wrote:
Chewster wrote:You're right, I'm sure my time will come in regards to taking shortcuts. Over shoulder bags though, I've never been told not to wear them. Admittedly I WAS told they had a weight limit of 11kg I think it was so I would have been on my own with the 20kg example (over Christmas of course), but if I hurt myself as a result of carrying a bag of less than 11kg, then surely I can't really be held to blame for doing something that I've been taught and told to do since day 1?
If I remember those long gone days correctly, before Delivery Methods revision, you could have one pouch of up to 16Kg and the rest up to 11Kg.

Delivery Methods scrapped those weight limits around 2010.

Carrying a pouch was only supposed to be for exceptional circumstances from that point on, to protect OPGs' long term health, for example most blocks of flats are not designed to allow OPGs to push their LWT or HCT around the building.

So for these exceptional situations, a 5Kg pouch weight limit was put in place, as another rule to be ignored by many OPGs while blind eyes and pressure was often applied by linos regarding walks taking too long and messing up the depot budget.

Wow, I had an induction last year, and actually one in 2012 as well for a temp summer job, and both times we were told the "old ways" of having the pouches, i.e they are to be used. Major lack of communication from Royal Mail

Chewster · Post by **Chewster** » 07 Mar 2016, 07:59

Wait though, so how are we expected to carry out deliveries without bags?? If I'm going to a street, and it doesn't even need to be a big street, and I have multiple small parcels, what am I supposed to do? Would that qualify as an "exceptional circumstance"? Or would I just need to go round with the mail and then return in the van with any packet that doesn't fit in my bundle? What if I'm on a HCT duty, and I have parcels for a dead end street that I'd normally tie my trolley up for?

Don't get me wrong, the reasoning behind this rule is obviously safety based which is good, but in practice it just seems it's going to make walks much much much more effort and time than they need to be, whenever they eventually get round to actually telling staff that these are the rules that it.

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 07 Mar 2016, 13:34

youre supposed to be allocated with golf trolleys adapted to carry a delivery pouch on each side that look like this

id be surprised if your office doesnt have these

Chewster · Post by **Chewster** » 07 Mar 2016, 14:57

We do have those yeah. Use it very rarely if I'm on a vanshare duty and we don't work together, but even then I usually have a bag slung over my shoulder. I just really don't agree with the rule. People's safety and health comes first I suppose but just doesn't seem very efficient. I'd guess that a lot of managers out there probably agree with me judging by how many of are still trained to use the bags. But hey ho, change is a'coming I suppose.

btw, I think I would have chucked out that parcel if I was him!

Post by **IloveMYredTROLLEY!** » 07 Mar 2016, 15:47

As someone who only uses LWTs on the rare occasion I work my day off on another duty, I find using LWTs very easy to use on loops all at ground level, compared to HCTs Mk1s that weigh ~37Kg with nothing in them... LWTs should only have a maximum gross weight including mail of 32Kg if I remember rightly! I don't understand why many PnL duty holders are not using them on ground level loops, moving them along is effortless and adds so little time while taking the strain off our bodies, an awful lot of vans don't even take a single LWT... I have to go searching for a working spare one before we head out!

If your depot has had its Delivery Methods revision, your shift workload is supposed to be designed so you use your LWT/HCT correctly on delivery. If using them correctly takes you over your time frequently, why risk your long term health carrying pouches over your shoulder, making it look like the "planners" did a good job and improving the manager bonuses?