The reserves stay the reserves

[LaggyBand]

Hi all

Looking for some specific, practical advice for my situation. Seems that this is happening more and more often now, I've seen other recent threads with a similar flavour and slightly different circumstances...

The gist of it: what can a postie do, besides "get your rep on it", or "have a gentle talk with your DOM", about new starters pushing into the seniority queue for walks?

About 18 months ago, a postie left. Chap was knackered. Looked like a twiglet after twenty years service. So we fought for about six months and finally his job goes up for signing.

Now I've been there for fifteen years. During that time, I've only ever been a floater-treated-as-a-reserve (it's a new type of duty in these parts).

So I think, way-hey, all those years of being chucked on any round, I'm finally moving up in the world, I might actually get this gig!

And I did. I was the most senior (and only) applicant for the duty. Lino and Dom both confirmed: it's yours.

So I start on the duty about a year ago. I was living the dream. Tidied the frame, resequenced the whole lot so that is made sense. Nice clear labels. Redirection section. Even got a locker out of it. Perfected the "Morning" to Mrs Higginbottom. My wife was proud.

Then, after three weeks of doing it, I'm off for three weeks' annual leave. And during that time..a new starter.

Now don't get me wrong; this guy is sound. Works to time, and if he can't get done, he properly cuts off. Never succumbs to the pressure to complete. Dude even put his first grievance in during his first year.

And that is precisely why... I never got the duty back. Operational need, ya see. That was a year ago. Rep simply repeats the Doms position.

So...what can I do? There are no personal/equality act reasons why this chap is on it. Now I shouldn't know that 100% but for the purposes of this thread you can assume I do. It's simply a matter of me being too useful as a reserve, knowing all the walks, and him better off being on a static duty so that he doesn't kick off.

Anyone know of something I can do to force my rep and the dom to switch us and have him trained on other jobs?

Or is it a case of the reserves stay the reserves?

[ikybear]

I would have thought that if you picked it as a fairly advertised vacancy its yours.
But that said they seem to do what they like.
I picked a duty 18 months ago and have been moved every day for "operational needs"

I would suggest going to grievance but it probably won't make any difference.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Actually in this circumstance it is actually a grievance you need to lodge, though you will need to follow it through to more than 1 stage unfortunately and go above your Dom and possibly the Dsm, as for your rep simply go above him to area rep then branch secretary if he won't help you with the grievance,

If more that a couple of reserves in exact same position then that would be slightly different in that I would recommended lodging a disagreement over it instead of a grievance

[Darren Bent]

I agree and it is not right when people come in the job and get their own walk without doing years of reserves duties. if he/she apply for a walk and no one else want it that fair enough.

[LaggyBand]

Actually in this circumstance it is actually a grievance you need to lodge, though you will need to follow it through to more than 1 stage unfortunately and go above your Dom and possibly the Dsm, as for your rep simply go above him to area rep then branch secretary if he won't help you with the grievance,

If more that a couple of reserves in exact same position then that would be slightly different in that I would recommended lodging a disagreement over it instead of a grievance

Thanks for the response.
I've noticed your posts before. They tend to be legal in nature. Well I'm interested in taking a more "administrative" approach. Talking gets me nowhere.

The second paragraph is material for me. It is not only me this has happened to. Management are struggling because both of their go-to lads who know all the rounds and fill in the gaps have successfully applied for their own jobs but don't actually get to do them. They don't want the expense of training the new starters properly. So what do I do? Is there a specific form number to lodge the proper disagreement? Is there a rule or procedure I can point to that says "if this is not happening then do this"?

I'm a legal person too. I need something solid. A clear breach that I can point to. And an associated procedure to follow. Then I can run with it.

Thanks mate

Edit: also I'm already at area rep level. He just ignores it because it isn't a quick fix that can be solved over a fag.

[mancpat]

I agree and it is not right when people come in the job and get their own walk without doing years of reserves duties. if he/she apply for a walk and no one else want it that fair enough.

Royal mail has been run as a charity over the years. Overtime was a joke. Once I did 2 rounds (back when we were on 2nd delivery) and I was getting paid till around 9pm even though I was home by around midday.
Long service meant people were ruling the roost over those with less service.

Now its being run like a business where the best people are put in the right places. We might not agree with it but that's the way it is.

Why put 2 guys together who piss about all morning and then another two who get the job done. 2 are out all day on the docket while 2 are fishing early. In any other job they'd be mixed up to cut overtime. It's no different at royal mail now from what I'm seeing.

I personally don't have a problem with it but can see why it would annoy some people.

[Nondescript]

Have you considered the possibility that your managers just don't like you?

[bogstandard]

Your colleague will or should have been trained by your local workplace coach. They will have identified a duty within your office to train new starters, this may have been your new duty however the office should have been made aware of this. If after x amount of time your colleague could not perform all the tasks needed then your workplace coach should have made the DOM aware of their restrictions. I don't know this person from Adam, but right now what are their motivations to perform any better than they do, i mean would i be right in thinking if they did they would get moved around the office? According to your post this person has been on it for almost a year if they don't know what to do on a walk now they never will. Yes when we were new we didnt know road A from road B but this experiance comes with time so one question you could ask is are the business trying to train people on one duty that they will never be moved from in order to limit their knowledge and experiance?

[LaggyBand]

Have you considered the possibility that your managers just don't like you?

Of course you're bound to think, "maybe this guy is just an arse". But for the purposes of this thread, you can assume the managers like me.

The situation is simply that this guy causes less problems when he's on the job he wants to do, everyday.

The purpose of this thread is to encourage someone knowledgable to say:

"Rule A has been broken (with citation). Procedure B should be followed (again with citation).

Fluffy talk tends to get nowhere. And it would be really helpful for those searching for an answer who are having this problem too.

If no such rule has been broken, or if there is no set procedure to follow, then I can at least acknowledge that there is nothing that can be done. Save for transferring to become a "I know nothing" postie again, in the hope of getting a duty that way.

[LaggyBand]

If nobody knows the answer to this question, does anyone know where I should go to find out?

[bogstandard]

Hi all

Looking for some specific, practical advice for my situation. Seems that this is happening more and more often now, I've seen other recent threads with a similar flavour and slightly different circumstances...

The gist of it: what can a postie do, besides "get your rep on it", or "have a gentle talk with your DOM", about new starters pushing into the seniority queue for walks?

About 18 months ago, a postie left. Chap was knackered. Looked like a twiglet after twenty years service. So we fought for about six months and finally his job goes up for signing.

Now I've been there for fifteen years. During that time, I've only ever been a floater-treated-as-a-reserve (it's a new type of duty in these parts).

So I think, way-hey, all those years of being chucked on any round, I'm finally moving up in the world, I might actually get this gig!

And I did. I was the most senior (and only) applicant for the duty. Lino and Dom both confirmed: it's yours.

So I start on the duty about a year ago. I was living the dream. Tidied the frame, resequenced the whole lot so that is made sense. Nice clear labels. Redirection section. Even got a locker out of it. Perfected the "Morning" to Mrs Higginbottom. My wife was proud.

Then, after three weeks of doing it, I'm off for three weeks' annual leave. And during that time..a new starter.

Now don't get me wrong; this guy is sound. Works to time, and if he can't get done, he properly cuts off. Never succumbs to the pressure to complete. Dude even put his first grievance in during his first year.

And that is precisely why... I never got the duty back. Operational need, ya see. That was a year ago. Rep simply repeats the Doms position.

So...what can I do? There are no personal/equality act reasons why this chap is on it. Now I shouldn't know that 100% but for the purposes of this thread you can assume I do. It's simply a matter of me being too useful as a reserve, knowing all the walks, and him better off being on a static duty so that he doesn't kick off.

Anyone know of something I can do to force my rep and the dom to switch us and have him trained on other jobs?

Or is it a case of the reserves stay the reserves?

assuming the two highlighted are what you've been quoted i can see there are no operational needs. Your colleague cannot do the job, not their fault (maybe) possibly down to, poor training if any at all. You would like something written down well ask your DOM for it. Yes there are occasions when operational needs trumps stuff but not for this amount of time and for someone who cannot do this job there should be some sort of plan designed to deal with this event. Put it in writting to your DOM cc in your rep and area rep and branch sec if needs be. It is rare that something will be written down that you can waft in front of DOM or similar that covers each eventuality.
If we take some things as red that the job was sucessfully signed for and that there were no caveats attached to signing for this duty then my first port of call would be a written explanation from the DOM as to what the "operational need" was, and why this "operational need" has not been dealt with since it first came to light.This letter is easily followed up depending on the DOM's responce

[LaggyBand]

Hi all

Looking for some specific, practical advice for my situation. Seems that this is happening more and more often now, I've seen other recent threads with a similar flavour and slightly different circumstances...

The gist of it: what can a postie do, besides "get your rep on it", or "have a gentle talk with your DOM", about new starters pushing into the seniority queue for walks?

About 18 months ago, a postie left. Chap was knackered. Looked like a twiglet after twenty years service. So we fought for about six months and finally his job goes up for signing.

Now I've been there for fifteen years. During that time, I've only ever been a floater-treated-as-a-reserve (it's a new type of duty in these parts).

So I think, way-hey, all those years of being chucked on any round, I'm finally moving up in the world, I might actually get this gig!

And I did. I was the most senior (and only) applicant for the duty. Lino and Dom both confirmed: it's yours.

So I start on the duty about a year ago. I was living the dream. Tidied the frame, resequenced the whole lot so that is made sense. Nice clear labels. Redirection section. Even got a locker out of it. Perfected the "Morning" to Mrs Higginbottom. My wife was proud.

Then, after three weeks of doing it, I'm off for three weeks' annual leave. And during that time..a new starter.

Now don't get me wrong; this guy is sound. Works to time, and if he can't get done, he properly cuts off. Never succumbs to the pressure to complete. Dude even put his first grievance in during his first year.

And that is precisely why... I never got the duty back. Operational need, ya see. That was a year ago. Rep simply repeats the Doms position.

So...what can I do? There are no personal/equality act reasons why this chap is on it. Now I shouldn't know that 100% but for the purposes of this thread you can assume I do. It's simply a matter of me being too useful as a reserve, knowing all the walks, and him better off being on a static duty so that he doesn't kick off.

Anyone know of something I can do to force my rep and the dom to switch us and have him trained on other jobs?

Or is it a case of the reserves stay the reserves?

assuming the two highlighted are what you've been quoted i can see there are no operational needs. Your colleague cannot do the job, not their fault (maybe) possibly down to, poor training if any at all. You would like something written down well ask your DOM for it. Yes there are occasions when operational needs trumps stuff but not for this amount of time and for someone who cannot do this job there should be some sort of plan designed to deal with this event. Put it in writting to your DOM cc in your rep and area rep and branch sec if needs be. It is rare that something will be written down that you can waft in front of DOM or similar that covers each eventuality.
If we take some things as red that the job was sucessfully signed for and that there were no caveats attached to signing for this duty then my first port of call would be a written explanation from the DOM as to what the "operational need" was, and why this "operational need" has not been dealt with since it first came to light.This letter is easily followed up depending on the DOM's responce

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

So basically, talk to the DOM?

I've done that. It gets nowhere. They use a technique. I call it the carrot-on-a-stick technique. They tell you to wait for so-and-so, but tomorrow never comes. Most recently it was "wait til after Christmas". Before that it was "wait til the revision" (now confirmed to not be happening any time soon). Now it's "wait for more recruits". I'm looking for a specific rule on the resourcing of jobs. With section numbers. And whether I can proceed with a specific procedure, like a grievance or something. It I follow that through, And they still offer a carrot, I can tie them in to that specific event. When the event occurs, it's more likely I'll get the duty back.

Until I do that though, I need to know the rule. I can't moan without knowing something is wrong. My DOM won't accept "the forums say so".

Don't mean to sound unappreciative but I'm done with mere commentary. I need specific rules and procedures or confirmation they don't exist.

Thanks

[bogstandard]

Hi all

Looking for some specific, practical advice for my situation. Seems that this is happening more and more often now, I've seen other recent threads with a similar flavour and slightly different circumstances...

The gist of it: what can a postie do, besides "get your rep on it", or "have a gentle talk with your DOM", about new starters pushing into the seniority queue for walks?

About 18 months ago, a postie left. Chap was knackered. Looked like a twiglet after twenty years service. So we fought for about six months and finally his job goes up for signing.

Now I've been there for fifteen years. During that time, I've only ever been a floater-treated-as-a-reserve (it's a new type of duty in these parts).

So I think, way-hey, all those years of being chucked on any round, I'm finally moving up in the world, I might actually get this gig!

And I did. I was the most senior (and only) applicant for the duty. Lino and Dom both confirmed: it's yours.

So I start on the duty about a year ago. I was living the dream. Tidied the frame, resequenced the whole lot so that is made sense. Nice clear labels. Redirection section. Even got a locker out of it. Perfected the "Morning" to Mrs Higginbottom. My wife was proud.

Then, after three weeks of doing it, I'm off for three weeks' annual leave. And during that time..a new starter.

Now don't get me wrong; this guy is sound. Works to time, and if he can't get done, he properly cuts off. Never succumbs to the pressure to complete. Dude even put his first grievance in during his first year.

And that is precisely why... I never got the duty back. Operational need, ya see. That was a year ago. Rep simply repeats the Doms position.

So...what can I do? There are no personal/equality act reasons why this chap is on it. Now I shouldn't know that 100% but for the purposes of this thread you can assume I do. It's simply a matter of me being too useful as a reserve, knowing all the walks, and him better off being on a static duty so that he doesn't kick off.

Anyone know of something I can do to force my rep and the dom to switch us and have him trained on other jobs?

Or is it a case of the reserves stay the reserves?

assuming the two highlighted are what you've been quoted i can see there are no operational needs. Your colleague cannot do the job, not their fault (maybe) possibly down to, poor training if any at all. You would like something written down well ask your DOM for it. Yes there are occasions when operational needs trumps stuff but not for this amount of time and for someone who cannot do this job there should be some sort of plan designed to deal with this event. Put it in writting to your DOM cc in your rep and area rep and branch sec if needs be. It is rare that something will be written down that you can waft in front of DOM or similar that covers each eventuality.
If we take some things as red that the job was sucessfully signed for and that there were no caveats attached to signing for this duty then my first port of call would be a written explanation from the DOM as to what the "operational need" was, and why this "operational need" has not been dealt with since it first came to light.This letter is easily followed up depending on the DOM's responce

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

So basically, talk to the DOM?

I've done that. It gets nowhere. They use a technique. I call it the carrot-on-a-stick technique. They tell you to wait for so-and-so, but tomorrow never comes. Most recently it was "wait til after Christmas". Before that it was "wait til the revision" (now confirmed to not be happening any time soon). Now it's "wait for more recruits". I'm looking for a specific rule on the resourcing of jobs. With section numbers. And whether I can proceed with a specific procedure, like a grievance or something. It I follow that through, And they still offer a carrot, I can tie them in to that specific event. When the event occurs, it's more likely I'll get the duty back.

Until I do that though, I need to know the rule. I can't moan without knowing something is wrong. My DOM won't accept "the forums say so".

Don't mean to sound unappreciative but I'm done with mere commentary. I need specific rules and procedures or confirmation they don't exist.

Thanks

as i said, write to the DOM and be explicit in your required responce. End your letter with "i look forward to your written responce" cc in your local rep. after a week write again starting with "i wrote to you last week, copy attached" cc in your local and area rep with something like "are you now in a position to respond". If you still get no responce write to your local and area rep, personally i believe if you write a letter that asks for a written responce you should get a written reply.
i know you are looking for something quite specific and i'm not going to tell you it doesn't exist but i haven't seen it.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Actually in this circumstance it is actually a grievance you need to lodge, though you will need to follow it through to more than 1 stage unfortunately and go above your Dom and possibly the Dsm, as for your rep simply go above him to area rep then branch secretary if he won't help you with the grievance,

If more that a couple of reserves in exact same position then that would be slightly different in that I would recommended lodging a disagreement over it instead of a grievance

Thanks for the response.
I've noticed your posts before. They tend to be legal in nature. Well I'm interested in taking a more "administrative" approach. Talking gets me nowhere.

The second paragraph is material for me. It is not only me this has happened to. Management are struggling because both of their go-to lads who know all the rounds and fill in the gaps have successfully applied for their own jobs but don't actually get to do them. They don't want the expense of training the new starters properly. So what do I do? Is there a specific form number to lodge the proper disagreement? Is there a rule or procedure I can point to that says "if this is not happening then do this"?

I'm a legal person too. I need something solid. A clear breach that I can point to. And an associated procedure to follow. Then I can run with it.

Thanks mate

Edit: also I'm already at area rep level. He just ignores it because it isn't a quick fix that can be solved over a fag.

The disagreement would need to be lodged by a union rep

you are(or feel) you are being treated unfairly hence why a formal grievance is the way forward in this case, there is no set rule that is not being followed by your dom he is doing things that he is allowed to do just that you(and the other reserves) are not being treated fairly in his application of this, potentially this could lead to a bullying/harrassment case, now the first step to get the ball rolling is to follow the grievance through, first by lodging a grievance then taking it higher if you dont get the out come you want