Can someone refuse to move duties unless trained?

[wannabeek]

Is a postie allowed to refuse to change duties if he has had no training on the round he'sbeing moved to?

This often happens to the reserves at our place and we generally just get on with it. However a long-time duty holder who has only done the one duty for over a decade is being moved onto a different duty to allow a new starter to do his round for 6 weeks.

I don't think he's very good at sticking up for himself but isn't happy about it so i don't want to advise him that he's entitled to refuse if that's incorrect.

By the way, they're singleton, not park and loop duties, so there would be zero guidance for him once he's out on delivery, if that's relevant.

[Whysoslowyehcfc]

I don't think they can be moved, unless they've done something wrong, I.e. Abused a customer.
As far as I know seniority is still around, and unless something was agreed before the start of the last resign then I don't believe they can be moved.

[SpacePhoenix]

How is the training for 1 walk different from another walk? Don't know about DO 318s but all 318s in MCs have something like "or as directed" on them so someone could be moved onto something else provided they've been trained on it

[wannabeek]

Well, not having worked in a MC, I may not know much about that, but the challenge on the streets is not just finding the right road, but where the blighters hide their letterbox! It's genuinely not as straightforward as just finding your first letterbox and following the run of the mail, there are some very peculiar alleyways and bonkers numberings, as well as all the other normal difficulties, such as 3 addresses in a row with no number on the property, or those you can't see the name of until you've gone all the way up their 40m driveway - pure daftness!

[beanmuncha]

Yes you can refuse being moved to a duty you have not been trained for, also a duty you know but have not done for a long time(years not months).
This comes under H&S as you have not be shown the duty be someone that knows it.
I know RM put guys on duties with no training but it's up to them to say no. I have done duties myself i didn't know but that was my choice.
The answer to your question is Yes.

PS i know i'm sad being on here at 12.20am. ha ha

[TrueBlueTerrier]

How is the training for 1 walk different from another walk?

Location of letterboxes (front rear side even garage)
Location of business drop points. (where is reception there are no signs)
Health and safety at particular business points (moving vehicles, large guard dogs - is there a bell to press for access)
hazards peculiar to certain delivery/address (Dogs, lose drain covers, etc)
Hidden addresses (115a, flat 2)
Unnamed streets (no road name sign I mean) not on a map
Delivery Points for addresses on a different street (No 12 Acacia Ave, is delivered on Acacia Street between 19 and 21)
Strange numbering system. (238, 230, 228, 224, 222, 214,212)
Missing numbers from doors (made worse if combined with ^^^)
Best way of doing the duty if not as per frame. (some selfish people make it easier for them with a car, rather than for a reserve without)
Relief facilities and Toilet stops
Conveyance to duty (bus times, drivers release time etc)
Dead walking stints between streets(which direction)
Location of Bag Drops and safe drops

and recently - Neighbours willing to accept DTN items


You can do them blind, but even just 1 days Proper training on each new duty will save the business hours of overtime just in the first week, and cut down on potential complaints which apparently cost the business an average of £25 each.

[Himaggen]

TBT, all of that information should be provided in the Walk Log. All 'new to walk' should be taken through the Walk Log by the WPC!

The issue here is that any new recruit is known to be arriving well in advance which means that the identified training duty should have been discussed and arrangements made, (duty holders asked/informed), in good time at the Resource Meetings.

It may be that it was decided that there were less known hazards and difficulties associated with that particular duty for a newcomer, but your IR Rep and the WPC should have had input on this not just a Manager, so speak to them both.

[chrisj]

The issue here is that any new recruit is known to be arriving well in advance which means that the identified training duty should have been discussed and arrangements made, (duty holders asked/informed), in good time at the Resource Meetings.

Sometimes, I do not think the managers know that they are receiving new staff. I say that because it is rare that anything is put in place for the new starter on his or her first day. Even the trainer or partner often does not know what is going on.

And very often, the new starters are told to arrive at a ridiculous late time when everyone is about to go or even gone, manager's are too busy, office folks too busy and other posties could not wait to get out that new starter is not even aware if where the 'toilet' is. It happened to me on my start and has been happening ever since I can remember our office having new starters.

We had a new starter 2 weeks ago that lasted just a few days... Being put on hard rounds does not help, being put on rounds nobody wants or without regular partners (in P&L) also does not help.

It is poor management and a waste of money in terms of recruitment process and the rest.

[lollollol]

Is a postie allowed to refuse to change duties if he has had no training on the round he'sbeing moved to?

This often happens to the reserves at our place and we generally just get on with it. However a long-time duty holder who has only done the one duty for over a decade is being moved onto a different duty to allow a new starter to do his round for 6 weeks.

I don't think he's very good at sticking up for himself but isn't happy about it so i don't want to advise him that he's entitled to refuse if that's incorrect.

By the way, they're singleton, not park and loop duties, so there would be zero guidance for him once he's out on delivery, if that's relevant.

We have the same issue where I work... people are moved all the time on to rounds they are unfamiliar with... lots of whinging and moaning but they get on with it... tried it with me once... took me 31/2 to prep the duty following hour ips then went for my break... had roughly 3 hours duty time left... went and told DIM I would not be going over that day... never been moved since...

[terry2972]

I have recently moved DO and have covered 3 different walks each one for a week not been shown any of them it's been interesting to say the least the deep joy of being a reserve hopefully I will survive and eventually get enough time in to get my own walk well I can dream

[wannabeek]

Thanks for advice guys. Not sure what the outcome will be but I can guarantee that there'll be no IR rep, workplace coach, or such-like involvement. I think I work for a different company to some people here on this site sometimes!

I suppose that's how it is out here in the sticks. I can tell someone what their rights are but if they're not willing to make a stand against it themselves for fear of becoming more of a target then they'll just have to put up with whatever.

I've heard another reserve quite glad about it that finally an 'old-timer' is getting the same treatment as one of us but I don't think it's the same at all. I reckon he go could off long-term sick with stress about it!