hans and dvbuk for you FT/PT

[Martin Walsh]

Hans as you so clearly said that all the offices which have more than 75/25 ratio were in London I thought I would show you that unless these have moved south that all of these offices which are in the North , Scotland and Northern Ireland have ratios above 75/25.

Harrogate 128 FT - 31 PT
Hunslet 35 ft - 7pt
Leeds 63 ft - 14
Newcastle upon Tyne 75ft - 22 pt
Altrincham 101 ft - 26 pt
Preston pr1- pr2 - 195ft - 23pt
Preston PR4 - 25ft - 6pt
Stockport 153ft - 41pt
Ballyclare 23 ft - 3pt
Belfast B1-3 37ft - 9pt
Belfast BT7 14ft - 2pt
Belfast BT9 26ft - 6pt
Coleraine 46ft- 10 pt
Larne 28ft - 7pt
Derry 101ft -23pt
Abayne 10ft - 2pt
Altens 124ft -9 pt
Arboath 34ft -8pt
Ballater 7ft -1 pt
Liverpool South 118ft - 12 pt
Manchester 76ft - 3 pt
Mossley Hill 33ft -2 pt
Openshaw 18ft -4pt
Ormkirk 59 ft - 14pt
St Helens 139ft - 36 pt
Stockport 157ft -37pt
Tarporley 18ft -1pt
Winsford 50ft - 8pt
Brechin 16ft - 3pt
Bonnyrigg 27ft-6pt
Dundee 4&5 91ft -15pt
Dunfermiline 128ft - 31pt
Edinburgh EH1 75ft -13pt
Edinburgh EH9 26ft-6pt
Edinburgh West 109ft -14pt
Forres 21ft - 4pt
Inveruvie 55ft -3 pt
Leith EH6 31ft -7pt
Lerwich 47ft - 11pt
Newton Strewart 25ft - 5pt
Pitlochry 23ft - 5pt
Stornoway 35ft - 8pt


So the union has every offices breakdown but there is a lot of research needed. You see not all revisons have yet been introduced some offices are carrying FTCs pending a revision. Part timers are on different contracted hours we have ranges from 38 hours down to the saturday only contract.

We also have part timers who are doing more hours against their own duty and some will have the opportunity to increase their hours under the job secturity agreement.

In addition a lot of offices have gone for the 2 weeks off in 6 and have requested a number of Saturday only contracts.

I will give you the current number in due course but this will change once the 300 odd revisons which have not yet been introduced are implemented.

Oh and yes some of the South do have good full time ratio`s.

[dvbuk55]

If they have every offices breakdown what's wrong with producing the current total figure and amending it accordingly when the revisions are carried out.
Exactly what research is needed to add the figures up? That's less than 50 offices out of 1500 and you could have printed any office list that supported the presumed ratio so that little gem doesn't answer the question!

[Martin Walsh]

So because Dvbuk from Royal Mail chat wants the figures the union should send them out ?

The reason I posted this was that all of these offices are from the North , Scotland and NI and all have above the 75/25 ratio which Hans Solo was saying only related to London Offices.

Personally the figures only reveal what the TM1 was saying at the time , not if duties are being lapsed , part timers are working more hours then they were contracted too.

I believe this information will be released in due course but 1500 offices I don't intend to write them all up here !!!

[dvbuk55]

So because Dvbuk from Royal Mail chat wants the figures the union should send them out ?

The reason I posted this was that all of these offices are from the North , Scotland and NI and all have above the 75/25 ratio which Hans Solo was saying only related to London Offices.

Personally the figures only reveal what the TM1 was saying at the time , not if duties are being lapsed , part timers are working more hours then they were contracted too.

I believe this information will be released in due course but 1500 offices I don't intend to write them all up here !!!

Actually No dingo the information should be available and transparent to any and all union members or are the CWU running a gentlemans club - as for trying to justify the 75/25 ratio with a few figures is actually pathetic. I have emailed some people to glean the information and I would expect it to be provided but hey who knows perhaps it will be yet another expurgated data stream.

[wiltim7]

if these offices are over the ratio.What is there work plan? Are they mail centres ? or delivery offices? why do other delivery offices have more part-times than full ?

[hans solo]

smoke and mirrors thats all that will be the total office count with 75/25 in favour
what about the rest as my office defo isnt and neither surrounding offices

[hans solo]

and NONE from west of scotland wonder why that is ?
just wait until cwu ask for support from these offices re privatisation and dsa issues
you reap what you sow

[fishtank]

why do other delivery offices have more part-times than full ?

There are many reasons why some offices have more full-time staff,sometimes it's to do with the geography of the office,the duty build up,sometimes it's recruitment issues and sometimes it's because an office or area has been screwed over by management.

Around 2006/7 Royal mail started to see the potential of absorbing indoor workload as a savings tool outside the agreed framework for dealing with savings proposals.
The easiest way to do this was replace any full-timer who left with a part-timer and incorporate the indoor work into existing duties.
Nationally the union was slow to react to this threat and believe it or not some areas actually saw it as a positive protecting existing full time with extra indoor work.
Some managers got greedy...it was easy savings...some offices got seriously screwed over.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk why would a member want to see 1500 offices break down ? Then I suppose they will anaylise what lump sums they had and what is to be done and then add up all 1500 offices full time and part time ratios to see if it is over and above 75/25 and then guess what they will have to do it again as revisions go in every week !

Hans what gets me is why are some offices able to remain high full time offices and some the total reverse. The stoke agreement applies to all vacancies and we have lots of reasons why some are more full time then part time , in London a few years ago you could not retain part timers on delivery , now due to the reccession and dare I say it the increase in London weighting you can.

But up and down the country it is a mixed view.

Hans your not doing the union a favour , remember the union survived the British telecom privitisation and it will survive if royal mail is sold , the people who lose out in a sell off is the workers in terms of jobs , wages and terms.

So it is you who will reap what you sow!

[DGP1]

The difference between offices that have large FTers and those who don't are those offices with high turnovers, nobody who has started in my office in the past 10 years has been made FT while plenty of people have left.

[dvbuk55]

why do other delivery offices have more part-times than full ?

There are many reasons why some offices have more full-time staff,sometimes it's to do with the geography of the office,the duty build up,sometimes it's recruitment issues and sometimes it's because an office or area has been screwed over by management.

Around 2006/7 Royal mail started to see the potential of absorbing indoor workload as a savings tool outside the agreed framework for dealing with savings proposals.
The easiest way to do this was replace any full-timer who left with a part-timer and incorporate the indoor work into existing duties.
Nationally the union was slow to react to this threat and believe it or not some areas actually saw it as a positive protecting existing full time with extra indoor work.
Some managers got greedy...it was easy savings...some offices got seriously screwed over.

That was 2006/7 and yet the agreement of 2010 was a 75/25 split which admittedly was a national ratio but there hasn't been as far as is discernible any effort whatsoever to monitor exactly what the ratio is - and yet a stream of figures becomes available and a total figure is supposedly held at CWU HQ - so why not publish it. The timeline though is about spot on we haven't filled a full time vacancy for at least 5 years and I would imagine there are many offices in similar circumstances, what we have is an office half manned by part timers anxious to work as many hours as possible and that too should be monitored and regulated.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk why would a member want to see 1500 offices break down ? Then I suppose they will anaylise what lump sums they had and what is to be done and then add up all 1500 offices full time and part time ratios to see if it is over and above 75/25 and then guess what they will have to do it again as revisions go in every week !

Hans what gets me is why are some offices able to remain high full time offices and some the total reverse. The stoke agreement applies to all vacancies and we have lots of reasons why some are more full time then part time , in London a few years ago you could not retain part timers on delivery , now due to the reccession and dare I say it the increase in London weighting you can.

But up and down the country it is a mixed view.

Hans your not doing the union a favour , remember the union survived the British telecom privitisation and it will survive if royal mail is sold , the people who lose out in a sell off is the workers in terms of jobs , wages and terms.

So it is you who will reap what you sow!

Well I don't believe I asked for a breakdown unit by unit, which would be pointless, just an overall ratio would suffice. Once created it would be a simple matter to update it when each revision was in place. As I recall the 75/25 split was part of the BT2010 agreement which as you are aware is due to end in a couple of months and so at that point the ratio should be fulfilled should it not.

As for sowing and reaping dingo - let he who is without sin etc.................I'm pretty sure the private sector may well look at union affairs very closely.

[fishtank]

The stoke agreement applies to all vacancies

The Stoke Agreement is vague dingo but the main problem was when a rep was faced with a savings proposal to cut 40 hrs from an office it was far too easy just to agree to the next two leavers to be replaced by part-timers rather than go to the members and tell them a duty had to go and they would be picking up the extra roads.
Some reps took the easy way out as well and management knew they would.

No monitoring of this process was done by HQ until it became a talking point at conference in 2009 and by then a great deal of damage had already been done.

[hans solo]

if I reap what I sow fine
i,ll have my 24yr redundancy package now as thats what i want
the jobs crap now bully boy mgmt tactics re ft -pt , ot for the select few, impossible timescales the list is endless.
remember NO PLAN B union backed all this
i do not forget
just give me the cash and adios you wont see me for dust
what will i do ENJOY LIFE once more and i can assure you im not alone
rm scotland is an absolute sham rotton and corrupt and cwu do not care