lapsing, some advice needed

[tigercat]

Said to my lino today that I dont have time to do the donor walk today as its busy, I will complete my own walk and I dont want to work past my time doing the donor. He said remember the Sats, Tues etc when I finish before my time. I said thats got nothing to do with it. He proceeded to tell me that if I dont do the donor he will find me and make me work to my time on "lighter" days when I do make some time. Should I go to the union/DOM and tell them what hes threatening to do. Hes a total C*ck who will make life hard for me as he has done with others who have questioned his supremacy/orders.

[clashcityrocker]

If everybody worked to their time every day, this abuse of the flexibility agreement, the so-called swings and roundabouts, would end once and for all.
This obsession with making time on some days gives them the ammunition to batter us on other days.
If you don't want to work past your time - don't go home early, ever.

[fishtank]

This obsession with making time on some days gives them the ammunition to batter us on other days.

There are only two ways this will end...either the workload will increase again and again to the point that it becomes impossible even for the flyers to make time or the union will be forced to agree some system of banking hours and electronic time management to protect those who do the job properly.
Of course it will be the union's fault.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

If everybody worked to their time every day, this abuse of the flexibility agreement, the so-called swings and roundabouts, would end once and for all.
This obsession with making time on some days gives them the ammunition to batter us on other days.
If you don't want to work past your time - don't go home early, ever.

There are only two ways this will end...either the workload will increase again and again to the point that it becomes impossible even for the flyers to make time or the union will be forced to agree some system of banking hours and electronic time management to protect those who do the job properly.
Of course it will be the union's fault.

That the Union will be blamed although looking at posts on here we are bringing it on ourselves, but some either refuse to see it, or can and don't care.

[steven100]

Wouldn't it just easier to go back the office on a Tuesday and stay there until your finishing time ie making up d2ds. Is that too simple.

Also with regards lapsing, in our office we have people who come in early and sort mail just so we can lapse.

[arnold cheshire]

Wouldn't it just easier to go back the office on a Tuesday and stay there until your finishing time ie making up d2ds. Is that too simple.

Also with regards lapsing, in our office we have people who come in early and sort mail just so we can lapse.

deliver a few extra door to doors on a tues

[soltan]

Flex 30 min max, same week and how can he try and apply retrospectively.

• Variation of hours – Where necessary, for example when traffic volumes are unexpectedly high or resourcing issues arise, individuals may be asked and may themselves request to vary their duty times by up to 30 minutes on a swings and roundabouts basis. Again, individual circumstances will be taken into account and total weekly contractual hours would not change.

[fishtank]

Flex 30 min max, same week and how can he try and apply retrospectively

He's not attempting to use the 30 mins flex agreement,he's attempting to use the agreement to work all paid hours on a "swings and roundabouts" basis...or a form of banking hours.
What kind of idiot decides to put "swings and roundabouts" in an agreement anyway?
WTF does it mean....anyone?

[soltan]

Hours can't be banked over 30min or different weeks, I assumed he was implying from week to week by saying sats, tues etc. Just work your hours if the workload can't be aligned to attendance then it is managers problem not OPG. Also why on the "lighter" days can the work be found for one person who by not being prepared to go over their time at the whim of the Lino, surely the Lino should by finding work (if available) for all staff.

[fishtank]

Just work your hours if the workload can't be aligned to attendance then it is managers problem not OPG.

But does that mean you can go home early?
It' may be a manager's responsibility to put the work in front of you but since 2007 job&finish has,on paper at least,ceased to exist so we have no agreement that says when you complete your delivery you can go home.
Managers will let you go home of course...but then managers also believe swings and roundabouts gives them the opportunity to claw this back on another day.
It is only the interpretation of "swings and roundabouts" that differs between us and them,the actual clause in the agreement is very vague,some areas have held a solid line over this issue and some haven't.
Some senior CWU reps believe that this clause allows a degree of variance between daily hours and some don't.The biggest stumbling block and where we have never been able to agree is actually how you measure,police and apply those hours and not the principle itself
It isn't a straightforward issue...it never was.

[eastie]

Just tell the Lino like I did that if you have to work till your time on light days you have to make the postmen that do docket start their O/T at their official finish time otherwise its double standards.
Plus what happens when you go over some days by 15 or 20 mins and dont book, they convieniently seem to forget about that.

[soltan]

I believe the main point of concern for tigercat is being singled out by the Lino, if people are going home early then why would one person be singled out? If on the quiet days work is found for you yet others are allowed to go home then ask the union/Dom why are you treated differently when you are paid the same as everybody else.

[Richard007]

Going home early is a thing of the past in my office we claim O T every day or break off its a chuffing nightmare -- park & loop sucks

[Lincox]

Fish, page 4 (or maybe section 4) of the Pay and Modernisation agreement states that a working group would be setup to discuss change to monthly pay and BANKING OF HOURS at a later date. I don't think this was ever implemented because the problems with the P&M Agreement became apparent very early on and led to the strikes of 2009. If this is the case then how can Management ever relate the Variation of Hours Agreement which includes the swings and roundabouts clause to banking or clawback of hours.

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

Plus what happens when you go over some days by 15 or 20 mins and dont book, they convieniently seem to forget about that.

I cannot more strongly disagree with that approach... Why would I work past my contract finish time and not claim for it, unless something unexpected happened on delivery, for instance bumping into an old friend and knattering for 10 minutes or so?

Maybe the fact I am on a crappy contract that I have on average easily exceeded by 10 hours per week for years, yet when I have annual leave I'm back down to the pathetic 22.5 hours.