Define "Reasonable"

superports · Post by **superports** » 06 Dec 2011, 17:42

I know this is going to be an issue over Christmas. Our dom has been insisting it`s in our contracts that we HAVE to do overtime, ie; a "reasonable" amount. I don`t have a problem doing "some", however my idea of reasonable will not be the same as his.

I`d appreciate it if anyone has had this same problem sharing what happened.

BillyPosty · Post by **BillyPosty** » 06 Dec 2011, 17:44

If I go over 15 / 20 mins then I class that as "ok" - unless I really need to be somewhere after work. Anything after that I would say is too much when added up over the week really.

not me · Post by **not me** » 06 Dec 2011, 17:45

superports wrote:I know this is going to be an issue over Christmas. Our dom has been insisting it`s in our contracts that we HAVE to do overtime, ie; a "reasonable" amount. I don`t have a problem doing "some", however my idea of reasonable will not be the same as his.

I`d appreciate it if anyone has had this same problem sharing what happened.

well you don't have to do any overtime
so you dictate whats reasonable

DGP1 · Post by **DGP1** » 06 Dec 2011, 17:45

give him 5 seconds and then ask him where it says that you HAVE to do OT.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 06 Dec 2011, 17:48

You don't have to do overtime..reasonable or otherwise.
Overtime is completely voluntary in Royal Mail.

Edit. what they said.

Grinder64 · Post by **Grinder64** » 06 Dec 2011, 18:19

Be polite, tell the tw*t that the second word is 'off!'...

Postman Plodd · Post by **Postman Plodd** » 06 Dec 2011, 18:24

tell him you'll work the same amount of o/t that he does

banner18 · Post by **banner18** » 06 Dec 2011, 18:32

What about those on tax credits?
They are on fixed hours for their awards and have tyo screw it all up due to forced o/t?
I don't think this is legal.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 06 Dec 2011, 18:34

banner18 wrote: I don't think this is legal.

It's not illegal to have a contractual overtime clause in your contract.
BT engineers have one that kicks in during severe weather.
We....don't.

Post by **jockstrapp** » 06 Dec 2011, 19:15

Overtime for RM

DirtyHarry · Post by **DirtyHarry** » 06 Dec 2011, 19:39

I wouldn't do 10 seconds worth of overtime for this mob, no way.

PhilthyPhil · Post by **PhilthyPhil** » 06 Dec 2011, 19:59

fishtank wrote: It's not illegal to have a contractual overtime clause in your contract.
BT engineers have one that kicks in during severe weather.
We....don't.

erm....

Hours of Work/Overtime

9.1 Subject to clause 9.2 of this statement, your weekly hours of attendance will be 40.00 hours per week (including meal breaks).

Your hours of work will be allocated to you by your manager. However, these hours may change from time to time after giving you reasonable notice.

9.2 Royal Mail has the responsibility of providing a public service. This puts a special obligation on all employees to play their part in maintaining the kind of service which the public has a right to expect. The nature of the service makes a measure of overtime working necessary. For this reason, it is a condition of your employment that you are liable to work overtime and to attend at varying times on any day (including weekends, Bank and Public Holidays) as the needs of the service demand. Overtime pay will be assessed in accordance with your business units pay directive, which you can gain access to by contacting your Manager.

It seems we do, or at least I do...

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 06 Dec 2011, 20:10

Haven't we been here before phil?
It is phrased to give the impression that you have some kind of obligation but,trust me that is not a contractual overtime agreement.
It's a flowery non-commitment to anything.
I'll put it another way...do you think they could make you attend at varying times on any day (including weekends, Bank and Public Holidays)?
A proper contractual overtime agreement sets out the terms and parameters for that overtime.

PhilthyPhil · Post by **PhilthyPhil** » 06 Dec 2011, 20:51

It certainly is quite vague, like virtually every other Royal Mail document/agreement

Post by **hantsman** » 06 Dec 2011, 20:55

PhilthyPhil wrote:
fishtank wrote: It's not illegal to have a contractual overtime clause in your contract.
BT engineers have one that kicks in during severe weather.
We....don't.
erm....

Hours of Work/Overtime

9.1 Subject to clause 9.2 of this statement, your weekly hours of attendance will be 40.00 hours per week (including meal breaks).

Your hours of work will be allocated to you by your manager. However, these hours may change from time to time after giving you reasonable notice.

9.2 Royal Mail has the responsibility of providing a public service. This puts a special obligation on all employees to play their part in maintaining the kind of service which the public has a right to expect. The nature of the service makes a measure of overtime working necessary. For this reason, it is a condition of your employment that you are liable to work overtime and to attend at varying times on any day (including weekends, Bank and Public Holidays) as the needs of the service demand. Overtime pay will be assessed in accordance with your business units pay directive, which you can gain access to by contacting your Manager.
It seems we do, or at least I do...

They will try and use this clause but the word is liable but it doesn'nt mention contractual. I don't think anybody has tested it yet in an ET but IMHO it won't stand up. Having said that you no how RM's managers can normally behave, and thats badly!

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