Sacked for wilful delay. Tribunal next week - urgent advice

[beastman]

I am looking for any advice that may prove useful in my forthcoming tribunal case. I was sacked for wilfil delay and I am
claiming unfair dismissal. I was a part timer with nearly 2 years experience with a previously crystal clear conduct record.
I apologise in advance for the lengthy post and would really appreciate feedback as it will hopefully help my case.

The circumstances on the day was that I was put on a new round that I hadn't done before and I knew I was struggling to
complete but carried on till the end of my shift, hoping I would finish but then did a further 30 minutes overtime and still
didn't complete. I returned to the office with the undelivered mail and left it on the frame but rather than dumping it there
I found my line manager and told her that I was unable to complete. She then arranged for the mail to be delivered that day.
On the face of it would perhaps appear to be clear cut wilful delay but I am wondering if people in the know could comment on
the viability of arguing my dismissal was unfair on the following points (I've numbered them to help reference each one):

1. As stated above I returned the mail to the delivery office. Crucially my line manger did not tell me I could be in
serious trouble for delaying the mail. Had she done I could have gone back out and delivered the mail.

2. RM will doubtless make the point that everyone knows the full seriousness of wilful delay and the procedures but in the
case of my line manager she didn't.In fairness she was fairly inexperienced but RM admit their management failure in this
point. It seems its fine for one of their line manager's to not be aware of the rules but not one of their posties.

3. The only procedure I can find about this is the Overunning Delivery procedure. This says alot about what can/should be
done prior to a delivery going out but next to nothing about what to do once the delivery has started. This is the only thing
it states:

3.2 AFTER COMMENCEMENT OF DELIVERY

If an individual is prevented from completing their delivery for any reason, it is essential that this is reported
immediately either by returning to the office or by telephone (telephone costs will be refunded).

So by returning to the office, as this procedure states, have I not in effect followed procedure?

4. My biggest mistake was that I did not call anyone on my mobile. My argument is that in the past when in the same situation
I called for help and was always told, basically tough and that I would have to complete. Also on the day I did not have my line manager's number, who I would normally call in this situation. I asked for her number the previous week and she failed to give it to me. I did have another manager's number but I thought that would be pointless as he wouldn't want to help as it wasn't his section. I also coincidentally had the DOM's number but as you can imagine I wasn't
keen on calling him! RM will argue that I should have called but my argument is what if I didn't have a mobile phone or couldn't find a callbox? Does not making one measily phone call mean I was justifibly have been sacked?

5. The main reason I cut off is I was struggling with an ankle ligaments injury. This injury was sustained when I went over on my ankle whilst on RM Duty. The first time it went I had physio treatment, an ATOS report and a phased return to work. The ankle injury eventually flared back up again a few months later basically due to too much walking and stress on the ankle and I had further time off work. I again received physio but this time the ATOS report was not forthcoming and it is documented how I had to chase the DOM for it several times as it seemed that he was pretty much keeping it from me. Also no proper phased return to work was implemented and the ATOS/physio report was effectively ignored. I believe that in RM not following their own procedures they contributed to my ankle injury. The DOM had previously warned me that I could lose my job due to my ankle not being up to the job so I felt I was justified in protecting myself by limiting my overtime to 30 minutes.

6. The Overunning Delivery procedure has not be followed at all. I think I am right in saying that the purpose of this is to
identify what staff were able to do overtime or not. I was never given the opportunity to refuse overtime, which clearly as I had an ankle injury I would have done. Once again RM has made by injury worse here.

7.My union rep said that regular work time listen and learning meetings were held and matters relating to wilful delay and procedures were highlighted fairly regularly. Being a part timer who started his shift after these meeting took place I was not given this information that the full timers were. My union rep said many part timers had similar problems due to this and this had been highlighted to management who continued to fail to involve part timers in this important information. I had heard many full timers say to me "well if you cant finish your round then bring it back" and clearly most of this was tough guy bravado talk. In reality I guess hardly anyone actually did it, at least without making sure they have covered themselves beforehand. Clearly I've found out the hard way about this.

8.Prior to my incident 2 other part timers had similar and arguably more severe cases and they were not sacked. In one case a postie deliberately failed to deliver his lapse and posted it through a red letterbox. This was found the next day. The DOM said he believed that staff member was "having personal problems" and felt that, even though he had 6 months experience under his felt, he "wasn't totally sure of the procedures". Yeah right.
In the other case the part time postie was seen by a manager in the morning putting mail back into the system from a previous day that he hadn't been delivered. The DOM stated this postie wasn't sacked as it turns out he had bullied and intimated his line manager into not taking his offense to the DOM!

The problem I have as I understand it is that although my tribunal hearing is for unfair dismissal it is not up to the tribunal to judge if they feel I was harshly treated or if they feel they would have dealt with the matter differently. ACAS advise me that they only have to judge if RM acted reasonably in the circumstances. So I would really appreciate any insight as to how I could argue my case as effectively as possible.

thanks alot

[SexyLegs]

I would say if you worked your full 5/6/8 hrs as per your contract and then an extra 30 mins on top you have been more than reasonable, the mistake you made, not that you need telling, is that you failed to inform your line manager you may not complete the duty and therefore giving them the problem of getting it covered, having said that it seems very unreasonable as you were on a duty new to you and you worked over anyway.

Good luck, are you in the union? Get your Area Rep to attend your tribunal with you and plead your case, it all seems very unfair to me but hey, what the hell do I know!

Tell them you tried to call in on the day but there was no answer from the office, worth a shot!!!

[krussel]

Sorry i have to pop out and did not read all your post, however:

The fact you went 30 mins over your time and did inform a manager should be in your favour. I think you have a good chance with this if your reps up to speed.

[taffy45]

did the mail you returned to the office get delivered that same day?

[beanmuncha]

How's it wilful delay,
You were on a walk you didn't know so you didn't know you couldn't complete it in time.
You worked 30mins over.
You informed your lino who didn't say you would be in trouble
The mail was delivered that day.
You should get your area Union rep in this and fight
Good luck

[taffy45]

i cant believe you were sacked this happens nearly every week in our office and management get it delivered or not in some cases and the boys never even get spoken to its just part and parcel of a delivery office these days,and if the management did try to do what happened to you then theres always a good old show of hands and out on the gate !!

[fishtank]

Concentrate on procedure...did they follow it?

6. DELAY OF CUSTOMERS’ MAIL - DECISION MAKING MODEL

Alleged Delay Judgement

Incident Does it need First Line Manager to approach employee or not?

Fact-finding Interview Does it end here, i.e. no action, individual advice or ticking off?

Formal Action Is it appropriate for First Line Manager to deal with? Decide on Serious Warning or Reprimand. Is it potential dismissal or action short of dismissal? Pass on to second line manager.

Precautionary Suspension Where it is potential dismissal, are mail or employees at risk? See para 11 precautionary suspension not automatic.

Formal Interview Was mail delayed?

Mail Delayed Any mitigating circumstances?
Was it wilful or unauthorised/unexcused delay?

Penalty Proportionate to the circumstances

These last 4 decisions appear to have been bypassed....Why?

The mail wasn't delayed.
There are mitigating circumstances.
It was at worst unexcused delay.
The penalty was disproportionate to the circumstances.

[DirtyHarry]

I am always surprised, don't know why, when I hear Royal Mail managers use the words, "wilful, wilfully", I mean, they clearly do not understand the meaning of the words.

Whatever this guy is guilty of, it most certainly isn't "wilful" delay.

[POSTWOMAN]

I think u should get justice.

First of all you automatically did inform/communicate your manager face to face when u brought mail back to office.

2nd when u returned mail u were already beyond your duty end time and hence it automatically states the reason to your manager. And u also stated that.

key points:
You dont need any reason to cut off if u r overtime.

You informed your manager face 2 face aka comunication was made and in time.

You were already overtime. and did u r best and even went 30 mins overtime.

u wud have been at fault if u just dropped unfinished mail in the wallet box, post box or in the office and went home without informing anyone.

Manager was informed when u returned unfinished mail because u were overtime - if they were informed then how its willful delay.

[REDLETTER]

Can I ask if you always return to the DO?

[magicoops]

In the circumstances you describe, imho it is surprising that you were dismissed. Were there other factors which you failed to convey?

[clashcityrocker]

The most surprising thing is this happened to a p/t member of staff.
Where there no full-timers to sack for no good reason?

Read Fishtank's post. It tells you everything you need to know.
This isn't about right and wrong. This is about procedure now.

[Cheetah]

Like FT said concentrate on procedure.....

1. Were you first suspended from your duty ? (this is stated in conduct code re. willfull delay page 7 item 11.) whilst the charge was being considered / investigated ?

2. Did you then have a fact finding Interview ?

3. Did the manager when notifying you he was progressing the case formally inform you he / she was considering dismissal as they must do this(page 5 item 6.)

4. When they progressed the case formally, who i.e what level was the manager who took the formal interview must beat at least royal mail executive manager level 2 Page 6 item 8 as a major penalty was given.

5. How was the incident willfull delay when you correctly followed procedure ? As you followed "after comencement of delivery" in choosing the option of returning to the office and informing your line manager ? The document you quote says either ring or return to office NOT both. You obviously intended to complete when you left the office but your ligament injury became unbearable, when this happened you IMMEDIATELY returned to the office and informed the line manager so you followed procedure.

6. The conduct code states (page 3 item 4.2) employees have the right to be treated fairly and in a non discriminatory way. When 2 other people have commited the same or even worse offence with no consequences, how are you not being discriminated agaainst or treated fairly ?

I'm no expert but without going into too much detail all the above I have listed are in question.... May I sugest you read the conduct code I have quoted as this may jog your memory re. other deviations from procedure. Get everything down on paper re. your progress through the procedure, any deviations from the conduct code, details of the other individuals circumstances who were let off ( they cannot be punished retrospectively) etc etc. There are many people who are much better informed than me on here ask for their help in posting questions, they are very helpfull and obliging. If you can take someone in to the tribunal do so, two heads are better than one.....

CONDUCT CODE....
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... de#p126001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OVERRUNNING DELIVERY......
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... mit=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This will also be usefull as it refers to the WTL covering and ensuring ALL employees are briefed on the overrunning procedure etc etc

To be honest from what little I know if you don't win this case there is something seriously wrong Good Luck .......

[Stella102]

sounds to me that they are trying to cut staff and screwing you over perhaps because they see your past injury as a threat and don't want you going off ill in the future with another ankle injury.

[TeeferTiger]

Yeah, sounds "wilful" to me... you "wilfully" dragged your heels all the way around this new duty with the injury previous sustained on duty, worked over your time, returned the mail to the office and informed a manager that you had been unable to complete, who then arranged for the mail to be delivered that day.

I mean, you might as well have just taken it home and stuck it in your garage for 6 months THAT would be wilful!

Bunch of t*ssers.

Good luck with your appeal, if it doesn't get thrown out in your favour then there's something seriously wrong.