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Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
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POSTMAN
- SITE ADMINISTRATOR
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- Joined: 07 Aug 2006, 03:19
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Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
Batch Revisions KA Postcode - Issues Identified by CWU in Troon DO, Dalry DO, Beith DO, Kilwinning DO
The CWU Area Delivery Rep KA/DG and Area Health and Safety Rep DG/KA met with the RM DSM to discuss issues arising from the revisions deployed so far. The CWU reminded RM that these issues need to be rectified before the expiry of the Post Implementation Review.
The CWU pointed out that some aspects of the revision are not working, and that some duties have had remedial alterations to meet delivery span times over and above the 20% of duties that would be expected to be wrong. Given the excessive overtime being worked and last letter times not being met more remedial action is required, prior to deployment in other units.
Indoor Issues
Frame plans Incorrect – This has had a major impact on Indoor performance. Delivery points out of sequence, colour coding wrong. These need to be redone by the existing duty holder to fit the sequence of delivery.
Existing revisions – Where this issue has been identified the duty holder must be allocated time to check the walk log and frame plan for accuracy.
Future revisions – The existing duty holder should be allocated time to check the accuracy of current walk log and frame plan. (As a second best option this could be the current floater) This will reduce the potential for mistakes when delivery points are plotted on new duties.
Double prepping – This has become more onerous with bigger duties and RM need to re-examine time allocated. The CWU believe that single prepping of larger duties by the duty holder is more efficient.
Mail arrivals and presentation. The IWT plans for 100% trayed mail and sleeved parcels. Where this does not happen there is a serious impact on Indoor time.
Meal Relief – It was noted that very few staff were taking allocated meal relief (part of indoor time), the agreement allows for split meal relief of 20 mins prior to departure and 20 mins on delivery. If Meal Relief being taken on delivery then duties must depart unit 20 mins prior to workplan to allow this. It is not acceptable to take 20 mins at end of shift. This needs to be re-inforced at WTLL by RM and CWU.
Tie down time for larger duties. The CWU do not believe that 30 mins tie down time is enough for larger duties. Some duties loading 12 bags for delivery, plus parcels etc. RM need to relook at this issue.
Buddy bundles – Not all buddy bundles are properly matched to prep frames. RM need to capture this information.
Outdoor
Outdoor duties in all the above units had been plotted on between 4.15 and 4.30 hrs.
HCT Duties – In the main it was reported that these duties were being completed to time, although issues with delivery point sequence have been raised. Time is needed to be correct these by the duty holder. HCT's do not have the capacity to carry sufficient mail for the bigger duties and bag boxes have been retained. This has meant that replenishment duties have been retained. Since HCT duties do not use the PDA duties are required for larger parcels, track n trace etc.
Shared vans
In some cases the new vans allocated do not have sufficient cargo room for larger duties. The CWU could not identify any safe load limit for these vans.
Park and Loops
Most park and loops designed by Georoute have been unworkable. The CWU has been unable to determine why. The variables used in planning these routes have not been shared with the CWU – for example – determination of duty call rates, attendance times, walk speeds per terrain, road speeds etc. We can only assume that these have been wrongly applied. If it was the case that only one or two duties were wrong we could not make this case. Planning values must be shared with the unit CWU rep. Most if not all park and loops need to be reassessed by the duty holder. All OPG's have had issues with duty sizes being unmanageable.
Golf Trolleys
Duty holders prep mail into red nylon handled sleeves which are slipped into the golf trolley bags on duty. These bags hold insufficient mail to complete the larger loops. This is requires longer times loading per delivery loop. 3 minutes is currently allowed per loop.
Some paths/pavements are unsuitable for trolley use, these need to be identified in the planning stage by the duty holder.
Golf Trolleys may be left unattended only for one minute, this is insufficient time to deliver to blocks of flats, most of which have external stair access. The lightweight shoulder bag may be a suitable alternative. These need to be identified by the duty holder.
The Golf trolley slows the OPG walking speed, this has not been matched by duty size.
The Golf Trolley has proved to be unstable in certain circumstances, e.g when being pulled the trolley topples over when clipping fences, kerbs etc. Likewise when crossing roads and mounting kerbs.
Female OPG's have expressed concerns over the weight of loading unloading the trolley.
These issues can only be addressed by the current duty holders being given time to correct delivery point sequence, reassess terrain type and delivery methods, and reducing duty size to meet last letter time and agreed delivery span.
It was agreed that Kilwinning DO or Dalry DO would establish a programme to address these issues and report back before the end of the PIR. The CWU require the full and meaningful involvement of the CWU Unit rep, CWU Unit H&S Rep and duty holders.
The CWU Area Delivery Rep KA/DG and Area Health and Safety Rep DG/KA met with the RM DSM to discuss issues arising from the revisions deployed so far. The CWU reminded RM that these issues need to be rectified before the expiry of the Post Implementation Review.
The CWU pointed out that some aspects of the revision are not working, and that some duties have had remedial alterations to meet delivery span times over and above the 20% of duties that would be expected to be wrong. Given the excessive overtime being worked and last letter times not being met more remedial action is required, prior to deployment in other units.
Indoor Issues
Frame plans Incorrect – This has had a major impact on Indoor performance. Delivery points out of sequence, colour coding wrong. These need to be redone by the existing duty holder to fit the sequence of delivery.
Existing revisions – Where this issue has been identified the duty holder must be allocated time to check the walk log and frame plan for accuracy.
Future revisions – The existing duty holder should be allocated time to check the accuracy of current walk log and frame plan. (As a second best option this could be the current floater) This will reduce the potential for mistakes when delivery points are plotted on new duties.
Double prepping – This has become more onerous with bigger duties and RM need to re-examine time allocated. The CWU believe that single prepping of larger duties by the duty holder is more efficient.
Mail arrivals and presentation. The IWT plans for 100% trayed mail and sleeved parcels. Where this does not happen there is a serious impact on Indoor time.
Meal Relief – It was noted that very few staff were taking allocated meal relief (part of indoor time), the agreement allows for split meal relief of 20 mins prior to departure and 20 mins on delivery. If Meal Relief being taken on delivery then duties must depart unit 20 mins prior to workplan to allow this. It is not acceptable to take 20 mins at end of shift. This needs to be re-inforced at WTLL by RM and CWU.
Tie down time for larger duties. The CWU do not believe that 30 mins tie down time is enough for larger duties. Some duties loading 12 bags for delivery, plus parcels etc. RM need to relook at this issue.
Buddy bundles – Not all buddy bundles are properly matched to prep frames. RM need to capture this information.
Outdoor
Outdoor duties in all the above units had been plotted on between 4.15 and 4.30 hrs.
HCT Duties – In the main it was reported that these duties were being completed to time, although issues with delivery point sequence have been raised. Time is needed to be correct these by the duty holder. HCT's do not have the capacity to carry sufficient mail for the bigger duties and bag boxes have been retained. This has meant that replenishment duties have been retained. Since HCT duties do not use the PDA duties are required for larger parcels, track n trace etc.
Shared vans
In some cases the new vans allocated do not have sufficient cargo room for larger duties. The CWU could not identify any safe load limit for these vans.
Park and Loops
Most park and loops designed by Georoute have been unworkable. The CWU has been unable to determine why. The variables used in planning these routes have not been shared with the CWU – for example – determination of duty call rates, attendance times, walk speeds per terrain, road speeds etc. We can only assume that these have been wrongly applied. If it was the case that only one or two duties were wrong we could not make this case. Planning values must be shared with the unit CWU rep. Most if not all park and loops need to be reassessed by the duty holder. All OPG's have had issues with duty sizes being unmanageable.
Golf Trolleys
Duty holders prep mail into red nylon handled sleeves which are slipped into the golf trolley bags on duty. These bags hold insufficient mail to complete the larger loops. This is requires longer times loading per delivery loop. 3 minutes is currently allowed per loop.
Some paths/pavements are unsuitable for trolley use, these need to be identified in the planning stage by the duty holder.
Golf Trolleys may be left unattended only for one minute, this is insufficient time to deliver to blocks of flats, most of which have external stair access. The lightweight shoulder bag may be a suitable alternative. These need to be identified by the duty holder.
The Golf trolley slows the OPG walking speed, this has not been matched by duty size.
The Golf Trolley has proved to be unstable in certain circumstances, e.g when being pulled the trolley topples over when clipping fences, kerbs etc. Likewise when crossing roads and mounting kerbs.
Female OPG's have expressed concerns over the weight of loading unloading the trolley.
These issues can only be addressed by the current duty holders being given time to correct delivery point sequence, reassess terrain type and delivery methods, and reducing duty size to meet last letter time and agreed delivery span.
It was agreed that Kilwinning DO or Dalry DO would establish a programme to address these issues and report back before the end of the PIR. The CWU require the full and meaningful involvement of the CWU Unit rep, CWU Unit H&S Rep and duty holders.
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
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smileski
- Posts: 185
- Joined: 16 Aug 2007, 17:38
Re: Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
so apart from that it's going alright then? 
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london sub
- Posts: 397
- Joined: 29 Jan 2009, 16:24
- Gender: Male
Re: Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
The combo vans have weight restrictions marked on the passangers side of the van. I've looked at all the Peugeot Bipper vans and they do not have that...are the doms trying to hide something. Its not good on our side if the van is involved in an accident and the van is over loaded.
Think about it, it not only puts your job at risk but could also cause a fatality. So many grey areas in this job than a decade ago not impressed
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dados
- Posts: 399
- Joined: 04 Sep 2009, 16:33
- Gender: Male
- Location: leading the 5th column
Re: Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
the indoor issues part of Postmans post could have been sorted with local knowledge/the duty holders input,but RM know best,we are too thick/stupid to have any meaningful input,what a farce 
Art as expression
Not as market campaigns
Will still capture our imaginations
Not as market campaigns
Will still capture our imaginations
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Danelectro
- Posts: 1058
- Joined: 13 Apr 2008, 01:02
Re: Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
Its not only Royal Mail that know best,CWU HQ also know best,they have allowed al sorts of shenanigans and carry onsdados wrote:the indoor issues part of Postmans post could have been sorted with local knowledge/the duty holders input,but RM know best,we are too thick/stupid to have any meaningful input,what a farce
to go unchallenged,they agreed to let DOM make savings before the revisions went in,they agreed to start revisions
without clarity on the 100BSI/IWT and a whole host of other issues/parameters that have not been thought out.
Obviously input from OPG's would have improved the duties in the above revision but a lot of the other stuff has been agreed
with the CWU,but i betcha ye wont get one of our lot putting their hand up and saying they got anything wrong.
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jockstrapp
- EX ROYAL MAIL
- Posts: 970
- Joined: 28 Mar 2009, 17:58
- Gender: Male
Re: Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
Hell will freeze over before I will help in the revision. I know the planners will f#ck it up but that is their problem because after my eight hour I'm out the door finished or not.

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youwot!!!!!
- MAIL CENTRES/PROCESSING
- Posts: 582
- Joined: 12 Mar 2010, 14:45
- Gender: Male
- Location: oop north
Re: Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
jockstrapp wrote:Hell will freeze over before I will help in the revision. I know the planners will f#ck it up but that is their problem because after my eight hour I'm out the door finished or not.![]()
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thats the spirit.
wish more thought like that.
who the hell invests £2 billion into a servic and makes it worse?????????????
you really couldn't make it up!!!!!!!!!!!
you really couldn't make it up!!!!!!!!!!!
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guvenor
- Posts: 493
- Joined: 20 Dec 2007, 16:58
Re: Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
and they have just tried to con killie with a secret ballot 
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bexhil palace
- Posts: 505
- Joined: 18 Jul 2007, 11:54
- Gender: Male
- Location: All over the Gaff
Re: Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
We were told by a planner(not one that is going to do ours) that all the new walks will be around 4-4.30 hours long.
Good i replied, more for me to bring back at my finishing time.
They can make my walk as long as they like, i'm not doing one stroke over my hours. f..k em.
Good i replied, more for me to bring back at my finishing time.
They can make my walk as long as they like, i'm not doing one stroke over my hours. f..k em.
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Godric
- EX ROYAL MAIL
- Posts: 855
- Joined: 17 Oct 2009, 12:08
- Gender: Male
- Location: The Kingdom of Alba
Re: Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
they want two duties out of prestwick and we are alreading doing 4 1/2 to 5 hour delivery spans ... they can go and take a f**k to themselves i ain't deliverying more streets, i had to use the high capacity trolley last week it was murder ... by friday i could hardly walk home cause my feet were that sore ... every day was over 5 hours delivery spanguvenor wrote:and they have just tried to con killie with a secret ballot
"Vi har haft århundraden av kärlek och tillit till varandra."
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POSTMAN
- SITE ADMINISTRATOR
- Posts: 32784
- Joined: 07 Aug 2006, 03:19
- Gender: Male
Re: Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
It does not matter what they want,they can't or rather shouldn't tell you what hrs they want out,it is against the agreement and all revision activity by your rep ect should be stopped and the info flagged to your ADR.Godric wrote:they want two duties out of prestwick and we are alreading doing 4 1/2 to 5 hour delivery spans ... they can go and take a f**k to themselves i ain't deliverying more streets, i had to use the high capacity trolley last week it was murder ... by friday i could hardly walk home cause my feet were that sore ... every day was over 5 hours delivery spanguvenor wrote:and they have just tried to con killie with a secret ballot
Or has the hrs lost been flagged up with the revision?
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
-
Godric
- EX ROYAL MAIL
- Posts: 855
- Joined: 17 Oct 2009, 12:08
- Gender: Male
- Location: The Kingdom of Alba
Re: Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
if any who doesn't know Prestwick delivery office is a small town delivery office which has a staff of around 22 - 25POSTMAN wrote:It does not matter what they want,they can't or rather shouldn't tell you what hrs they want out,it is against the agreement and all revision activity by your rep ect should be stopped and the info flagged to your ADR.Godric wrote:they want two duties out of prestwick and we are alreading doing 4 1/2 to 5 hour delivery spans ... they can go and take a f**k to themselves i ain't deliverying more streets, i had to use the high capacity trolley last week it was murder ... by friday i could hardly walk home cause my feet were that sore ... every day was over 5 hours delivery spanguvenor wrote:and they have just tried to con killie with a secret ballot
Or has the hrs lost been flagged up with the revision?
most of our problems stem back from when the single daily delivery was implemented, they took out 3 part time delivery walks without testing the existing walks which were already 3 1/2 hours, these 3 walks were split between walking duties adding a extra hour onto the delivery spans ... our unit rep was all for it as he wanted the money for signing up for it .... some like myself raised our concerns about the length of the delivery spans ... now we are lapsing another part time duty which has pushed our deliveries to the 5 hour mark ... i was tested fairly recently and my delivery came out at 4 hours 50 minutes on what i consider a average day.
some would say our problems originates from the late 90s when royal mail for a short period wanted the business to head towards full time employment ... on that news our unit rep (a different one) decided to take out 2 part time delivery walks out and make 2 part timers full time currently we have only 4 part time duties and the rest made up of full time
"Vi har haft århundraden av kärlek och tillit till varandra."
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Godric
- EX ROYAL MAIL
- Posts: 855
- Joined: 17 Oct 2009, 12:08
- Gender: Male
- Location: The Kingdom of Alba
Re: Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
and i must add Prestwick delivery office has never had a proper revision, only a couple of table tops in my 20 years
"Vi har haft århundraden av kärlek och tillit till varandra."
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guvenor
- Posts: 493
- Joined: 20 Dec 2007, 16:58
Re: Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
so whats ayr like havn,t heard much from them
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Godric
- EX ROYAL MAIL
- Posts: 855
- Joined: 17 Oct 2009, 12:08
- Gender: Male
- Location: The Kingdom of Alba
Re: Batch Revisions KA Postcode:A must read!
guvenor wrote:so whats ayr like havn,t heard much from them
i haven't a clue mate ... but Ayr DO is normally quite militant and don't take any nonesense from the management spivs
"Vi har haft århundraden av kärlek och tillit till varandra."