Trust

[drb]

Looking at the deal overall and the issues surrounding it,it has got to be the trust issue really. I mean the D2D issue,if someone cannot complete,we do not really trust them to be sympathetic do we?
A workplan devoid of budget,we really cannot completely trust them,certainly in offices in which are weak,and the manager will try to save money.
An unlimited walk span,we cannot trust them into making a fair and managable workload...because we do not trust them.

The idea is to take the weight off our backs to minimise the sick levels.However we do not trust them.

I have posted on here and argued with the deal and against the deal.However it all comes down to the trust issue.You all haveto admit,this is the biggest issue.Now I do understand that some will say if we base the agreement on just the trust issue it will not work.

However to those of us "on the floor",when it happens that a manager(s) are blatantly having their own policies,it is hard for people,just merely "looking in" to understand.

There has to be an avenue in which offices can call someone from HQ.To be honest the divisional reps are not up to much.Therefore the structure IS NOT WORKING.

The facts and figures and your reasoning do make sense.However the reality is quite the opposite.It is not the change that is stopping US.It is the change that is stopping THEM.

I know HQ are on this site,you must listen to your membership.There HAS to be a way for us to report and deal with this type of management..There are people on here that are crying out for your help.Scared if this deal goes through as it is "fuzzy" and soley relies on the Trust issue in which is really really frightening for us.We dread Tuesday to be honest.Are you listening?

[silverback]

Royal Mail management are that arrogant, they blantantly disregard current national agreements (ELECTION MATERIAL being the latest) even before the vote on the latest agreement has been cast. Of course we cannot trust them. They know this and dont give a damn. Whatever will be, will be. Our Union isnt strong enough at senior level (or cant be bothered) to make a difference.

[proper postie]

Well we all got ballot papers for the nec board.

Use your vote.

[drb]

To be honest I have PM'd the relevant people on this forum,stating that I will volunteer to be the help that offices need.To date I have had no reply.I have really tried to make this deal work and managers to "tow the line". No answer I'm afraid!!!

[GHOSTman]

drb, I think you're right. We need to start empowering local offices or even go as far as empowering each individual postman to stand up for their rights. Reading some of the posts on here it seems that some of these "strong" offices have a lot better representation than the "weak" ones.

I don't know if this is a crazy idea but how about we identify the main issues we all face such as cutting off, harrassment, ect, and create a pocket sized handbook or something similar that would outline the key points of the agreements that could be pointed out to our managers. There seem to be so many postmen in my office who are scared of losing their job (understandably) but because of this they let managers walk all over them, coming in early, working over for free, using their car, ect. These people need to be made aware that there are agreements there to be followed, if you just have the courage to use them...and crucially, also know what they are. What do people think on this? Could knowledge be power?

[proper postie]

drb, I think you're right. We need to start empowering local offices or even go as far as empowering each individual postman to stand up for their rights. Reading some of the posts on here it seems that some of these "strong" offices have a lot better representation than the "weak" ones.

I don't know if this is a crazy idea but how about we identify the main issues we all face such as cutting off, harrassment, ect, and create a pocket sized handbook or something similar that would outline the key points of the agreements that could be pointed out to our managers. There seem to be so many postmen in my office who are scared of losing their job (understandably) but because of this they let managers walk all over them, coming in early, working over for free, using their car, ect. These people need to be made aware that there are agreements there to be followed, if you just have the courage to use them...and crucially, also know what they are. What do people think on this? Could knowledge be power?

Great theory,but how do you empower the individual postie in a two tier system?

The posties in my do below the 30 hour contract are like second class citizens.Not one of them has had a meeting about the proposal,not one of them has had a meeting with the rep about either.How can you empower someone completely left out of the loop?

Example: none of them know that mail sort can be left on a Saturday,yet it gets flung in for them.I leave it aside when I prep another frame but most seem to have a 'f**k the part timer' attitude and fling it in.

They are not informed about something as basic as that yet you expect them to know about agreements?

They are totally left out of the loop.

[fishtank]

drb, I think you're right. We need to start empowering local offices or even go as far as empowering each individual postman to stand up for their rights. Reading some of the posts on here it seems that some of these "strong" offices have a lot better representation than the "weak" ones.

I don't know if this is a crazy idea but how about we identify the main issues we all face such as cutting off, harrassment, ect, and create a pocket sized handbook or something similar that would outline the key points of the agreements that could be pointed out to our managers. There seem to be so many postmen in my office who are scared of losing their job (understandably) but because of this they let managers walk all over them, coming in early, working over for free, using their car, ect. These people need to be made aware that there are agreements there to be followed, if you just have the courage to use them...and crucially, also know what they are. What do people think on this? Could knowledge be power?

You cannot empower local offices when the agreement itself has no real power.
Outline the key points of this agreement and i will outline exactly how it can be bypassed IF management decide not to play the game.
The thread is called TRUST and that is all you will have left.
Knowledge is not power,the WORDS of the agreement are the only true power and in those our negotiators have let us down......again.

[GHOSTman]

drb, I think you're right. We need to start empowering local offices or even go as far as empowering each individual postman to stand up for their rights. Reading some of the posts on here it seems that some of these "strong" offices have a lot better representation than the "weak" ones.

I don't know if this is a crazy idea but how about we identify the main issues we all face such as cutting off, harrassment, ect, and create a pocket sized handbook or something similar that would outline the key points of the agreements that could be pointed out to our managers. There seem to be so many postmen in my office who are scared of losing their job (understandably) but because of this they let managers walk all over them, coming in early, working over for free, using their car, ect. These people need to be made aware that there are agreements there to be followed, if you just have the courage to use them...and crucially, also know what they are. What do people think on this? Could knowledge be power?

Great theory,but how do you empower the individual postie in a two tier system?

The posties in my do below the 30 hour contract are like second class citizens.Not one of them has had a meeting about the proposal,not one of them has had a meeting with the rep about either.How can you empower someone completely left out of the loop?

Example: none of them know that mail sort can be left on a Saturday,yet it gets flung in for them.I leave it aside when I prep another frame but most seem to have a 'f**k the part timer' attitude and fling it in.

They are not informed about something as basic as that yet you expect them to know about agreements?

They are totally left out of the loop.

I hear where you're coming from proper postie. I've seen this type of thing go on for years in my office. It does kind of make me despair to be honest. The thing I've noticed working for royalmail for over 10 years is it's a very dog eat dog type of company. This may be controversial but I think there are a large percentage of the workforce whose main priority is number one. seen many examples of this.....

The bulk man who won't take parcels that are obviosly bulk, to make his life easier....then as soon as he does a bike delivery he wants these parcels to go bulk..... to make his life easier.

The postman who became a manager because he was sick of the bullying and harrassment and wanted to be a different type of manager.....what happened after 6 months as a manager.....he started bullying and harrassing people to ....make his life easier.

The union rep who agrees to geo route revisions, even though he's advised not to...because it makes his life easier.

The Dom who bullys his line managers....so he hits his targets....which makes his life easier...and he gets a fat bonus...worst of the lot.

I must admit that if this agreement comes in I'm gearing myself up to represent myself. I'll make sure I know all about the relevent parts of the agreement and will be prepared to stick up to the managers. If that makes me a target so be it. The posties with a backbone in this company have got to start leading by example...and hope others will follow. A bit of support from the union would be nice though.

[GHOSTman]

drb, I think you're right. We need to start empowering local offices or even go as far as empowering each individual postman to stand up for their rights. Reading some of the posts on here it seems that some of these "strong" offices have a lot better representation than the "weak" ones.

I don't know if this is a crazy idea but how about we identify the main issues we all face such as cutting off, harrassment, ect, and create a pocket sized handbook or something similar that would outline the key points of the agreements that could be pointed out to our managers. There seem to be so many postmen in my office who are scared of losing their job (understandably) but because of this they let managers walk all over them, coming in early, working over for free, using their car, ect. These people need to be made aware that there are agreements there to be followed, if you just have the courage to use them...and crucially, also know what they are. What do people think on this? Could knowledge be power?

You cannot empower local offices when the agreement itself has no real power.
Outline the key points of this agreement and i will outline exactly how it can be bypassed IF management decide not to play the game.
The thread is called TRUST and that is all you will have left.
Knowledge is not power,the WORDS of the agreement are the only true power and in those our negotiators have let us down......again.

Hey Fishtank....you have a great talent for getting straight to the crux of the problem...basically we're all doomed!

[GHOSTman]

So the question is....If this agreement comes in ....where do we go from here? How do we make our working lives bearable? Are we saying it can't be done? Do we have to like it or quit the job? Can I think of another question? Come on You Posties....I need some inspiration here....we have to keep fighting... what is our next course of action?

[drb]

If HQ have taken the time,(and these independant people are involved as we were told),and the amount of money behind this agreement is there.How about,(per branch),two reps who will per their office in their area?

Should any major issue's arise,they then report directly to Higson/HQ/ACAS ? Issues to be resolved within 5 days?

This could be a permanent fixture and keep policies,(both parties I might add),in line.

You certainly would be able to "smoke" out the rogue element,and phase out the divisional reps.No disrespect to them,but the current Union structure model does not work!

As stated in the original post,if this agreement threatens to "change",this would have to apply to both parties surely?

[dvbuk55]

If HQ have taken the time,(and these independant people are involved as we were told),and the amount of money behind this agreement is there.How about,(per branch),two reps who will per their office in their area?

Should any major issue's arise,they then report directly to Higson/HQ/ACAS ? Issues to be resolved within 5 days?

This could be a permanent fixture and keep policies,(both parties I might add),in line.

You certainly would be able to "smoke" out the rogue element,and phase out the divisional reps.No disrespect to them,but the current Union structure model does not work!

As stated in the original post,if this agreement threatens to "change",this would have to apply to both parties surely?

I can see where you're coming from drb but we have Div and Area Reps who are released full time to deal with the problems that arise - we all know the problem that creates though, you have to question the commitment sometimes as you rightly say.

But the new understanding should preempt any necessity to bring in outside agencies or to create yet another tier of union involvement.

HQ misguidedly believe that this agreement gives them a seat at Balthasar's Feast and some influence in proceedings but of course it is no such thing whenever it suits RM the union will be sidelined again and it will take three years for any action from HQ - having said that maybe that's the reason for the 3 year time scale.

[dados]

So the question is....If this agreement comes in ....where do we go from here? How do we make our working lives bearable? Are we saying it can't be done? Do we have to like it or quit the job? Can I think of another question? Come on You Posties....I need some inspiration here....we have to keep fighting... what is our next course of action?

Sadly,because of the way this agreement has been trumpeted & sold,i think we are fcuk'ed,our militant rep is now saying,but its protecting f/t jobs,he's grasping at straws,its a slippery slope,divide & conquor has won,damned if we do,damned if we don't

[drb]

The current structure may be fine at national level.Things were done and said and it may of "sounded right".However in actual fact,from "the floor" there is a huge amount of sceptisism.Our view is that leopards do not change their spots.Yes,you could say it will not happen overnight.We have not seen ANY evidence from management of that changing.In fact if you look all over the forums,they are still continuing executive action right under HQ's noses.

We need solid evidence from the business on how it tackles rogue managment. We need solid evidence on how it will honour this agreement.

[andy2007]

So the question is....If this agreement comes in ....where do we go from here? How do we make our working lives bearable? Are we saying it can't be done? Do we have to like it or quit the job? Can I think of another question? Come on You Posties....I need some inspiration here....we have to keep fighting... what is our next course of action?

Where do we go if the agreement comes in?
Thousands of Delivery Posties will go to Hospital with injuries, and thousands of MC/RDC Posties will go to the Jobcentre.