Seniority and how it works

[realitybites]

I wonder if anyone can shed any light on the above. Are there national or localised rules regarding this? I understand seniority is to be scrapped to be replaced by what...........favouritsm, which seems to be the flavour of the month (many many months thinking about it). One scenario, a 22 year veteran of the postal service (deliveries) decides to take on a 25 hour contract just behind an 18 year old newbie on duty for just a week. The newbie could have his own walk while the long serving postie lands a reserve position. Other than conjecture, does anyone have any concrete info on this

[The truth!]

No seniority will not be replaced or scrapped.

The way forward secton on ways of working section 13 detial senioriy.

Seniority is based on length of service there will be no need to adjust seniority when employees transfer offices on either a voluntary or complusory basis. Where several employees start on the same day the following factors will determine the relative order , first any periods of post office service in other grades , secondly date of selection and thirdly date of birth.

These guidelines over rule any local agreements which conflict with these principles.

Hope this is helpful

[Big Daz]

realitybites

Some jobs in RML are selection by skills, when you get a skilled job but two OPG's are equally tied for it then the mosts senior gets it.


The way forward classes callers/enquiry office as selection by skills

[realitybites]

So is a 2 year full timer senior to a 3 year part timer? how does seniority affect those brought down from a 35 or 40 hour contract to a 25 hour contract, do they still retain their seniority over full timers who have less time invested in RM?

[Big Daz]

Seniority is used for picking duties and not much else these days.

In my D.O when we had pegasus revision in 2008 the resign was done in two groups one for PT one FT both in straight forward seniority order.

It depends on the duty structure/set up in your D.O in mine we have deicated PT duties were we do are own prep and are on 30 hour contracts. Used to be 28 hour contracts but all PT agreed to go to 30 hour as part of pegasus. Therefore most senior PT picked first in the resign of PT duties and the same happened for the FT resign.

Now if you dont do the prep and its deliver only of a full blown 3.5 hour delivery, then i see no reason why all delivery duties can not be put together in a repick, then the 3 year part timer would get pick before the 2 year FT.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

So is a 2 year full timer senior to a 3 year part timer? how does seniority affect those brought down from a 35 or 40 hour contract to a 25 hour contract, do they still retain their seniority over full timers who have less time invested in RM?

I am a FT in an office with PT who have more seniority than I do. As I understand it our duties are dedicated FT and PT and in a repick I will get first option ahead of the PT to apply for a FT duty. But if I wanted to go down in hours voluntarily then I would get the pick of dedicated PT walks only after those PT ahead of me in seniority have had theirs.

[Big Daz]

If there is a vacant FT duty PT can apply for that and if the most senior person will get it and therefore become FT

Then RML would simply recruit a PT rather than a PT to maintain the current FT/PT split and the budget.

A D.O should keep a record of PT wishing to go FT

Plenty on this in the Way Forward agreement.

[GHOSTman]

As a part timer looking to go full time i'm very interested in this topic as we're due a re-sign in the next few months. At the last re-sign 6 years ago it was very simple, you picked a duty in order of overall seniority then you decided if you wanted that duty to be full time or part time. This time there is talk as mentioned above that it could be split in to full time and part time groups. This in my opinion stinks as I've got quite a few more years service than a lot of current full timers. I know that no current full timer would want to be in the unfortunate position of losing out to an AG, but surely seniority is seniority regardless of current grade....simples! If not then all part timers will have to accept that they will never get a full time job in future unless they go down the favourtism route.

[POSTMAN]

As a part timer looking to go full time i'm very interested in this topic as we're due a re-sign in the next few months. At the last re-sign 6 years ago it was very simple, you picked a duty in order of overall seniority then you decided if you wanted that duty to be full time or part time. This time there is talk as mentioned above that it could be split in to full time and part time groups. This in my opinion stinks as I've got quite a few more years service than a lot of current full timers. I know that no current full timer would want to be in the unfortunate position of losing out to an AG, but surely seniority is seniority regardless of current grade....simples! If not then all part timers will have to accept that they will never get a full time job in future unless they go down the favourtism route.

Your old way has a flaw,a full timer could be bumped down to part time.There HAS to be 2 lists,like teebs office.

[GHOSTman]

As a part timer looking to go full time i'm very interested in this topic as we're due a re-sign in the next few months. At the last re-sign 6 years ago it was very simple, you picked a duty in order of overall seniority then you decided if you wanted that duty to be full time or part time. This time there is talk as mentioned above that it could be split in to full time and part time groups. This in my opinion stinks as I've got quite a few more years service than a lot of current full timers. I know that no current full timer would want to be in the unfortunate position of losing out to an AG, but surely seniority is seniority regardless of current grade....simples! If not then all part timers will have to accept that they will never get a full time job in future unless they go down the favourtism route.

Your old way has a flaw,a full timer could be bumped down to part time.There HAS to be 2 lists,like teebs office.

If you could gaurantee that no current full timers would lose their current status would this change things? I'm thinking of this Full time / part time ratio that may or may not come in. In our office there are more AG's than full timers. So if it was decided to increase the full time ratio no current full timer would lose their status. Would an AG then be able to be moved in to the full time group for the re-pick? I must add that I'm not holding my breath on the full time ratio being increased!

[fishtank]

As a part timer looking to go full time i'm very interested in this topic as we're due a re-sign in the next few months. At the last re-sign 6 years ago it was very simple, you picked a duty in order of overall seniority then you decided if you wanted that duty to be full time or part time. This time there is talk as mentioned above that it could be split in to full time and part time groups. This in my opinion stinks as I've got quite a few more years service than a lot of current full timers. I know that no current full timer would want to be in the unfortunate position of losing out to an AG, but surely seniority is seniority regardless of current grade....simples! If not then all part timers will have to accept that they will never get a full time job in future unless they go down the favourtism route.

Your old way has a flaw,a full timer could be bumped down to part time.There HAS to be 2 lists,like teebs office.

Throw drivers/non-drivers and park and loop into the mix and it's going to be fun and games in a large office.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

As a part timer looking to go full time i'm very interested in this topic as we're due a re-sign in the next few months. At the last re-sign 6 years ago it was very simple, you picked a duty in order of overall seniority then you decided if you wanted that duty to be full time or part time. This time there is talk as mentioned above that it could be split in to full time and part time groups. This in my opinion stinks as I've got quite a few more years service than a lot of current full timers. I know that no current full timer would want to be in the unfortunate position of losing out to an AG, but surely seniority is seniority regardless of current grade....simples! If not then all part timers will have to accept that they will never get a full time job in future unless they go down the favourtism route.

As long as the FT keeps his hours there should not be a problem otherwise he stands to loose a lot of money (1/4 of his take home pay) just because someone has now decided he would like full time hours at a repick but did not want them before. But somehow I cant see RM allowing a FT to keep his hours in a PT position and a PT to go FT someone would have to loose out and ultimately what is fairer.

1. Allowing someone to go to FT hours at the expense of another employee loosing hours and wages.

or.

2. Refusing a PT the option of going FT because none of the FT posties are willing to go down in hours.

Now if there is a vacant FT post available to pick then the most senior OPG regardless of contractual hours should have first choice the thing is that unless someone retires or is sacked in a repick there are usually less FT positions available than there are FT posties.


BTW - we are all the same grade now there are no longer PHGs, OPGs, or AGs - apparently we are all now OPGs

[POSTMAN]

As a part timer looking to go full time i'm very interested in this topic as we're due a re-sign in the next few months. At the last re-sign 6 years ago it was very simple, you picked a duty in order of overall seniority then you decided if you wanted that duty to be full time or part time. This time there is talk as mentioned above that it could be split in to full time and part time groups. This in my opinion stinks as I've got quite a few more years service than a lot of current full timers. I know that no current full timer would want to be in the unfortunate position of losing out to an AG, but surely seniority is seniority regardless of current grade....simples! If not then all part timers will have to accept that they will never get a full time job in future unless they go down the favourtism route.

Your old way has a flaw,a full timer could be bumped down to part time.There HAS to be 2 lists,like teebs office.

If you could gaurantee that no current full timers would lose their current status would this change things? I'm thinking of this Full time / part time ratio that may or may not come in. In our office there are more AG's than full timers. So if it was decided to increase the full time ratio no current full timer would lose their status. Would an AG then be able to be moved in to the full time group for the re-pick? I must add that I'm not holding my breath on the full time ratio being increased!

Things are going to change so much who knows what is going to happen.Hold tight for the agreement.With regards to the ratio,is it nationwide or individual offices nthat is the question,if it's individual offices RM are in big trouble,if it's nationwide,they will get away with murder.

[realitybites]

That was my next question, is there a ratio that is carved into stone and national, so to speak, or is it a question of local agreement.

[realitybites]

Does anyone know what the ratio is likely to be?