Royal Mail injunction plans

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Pathetic site.
All you do on here is agree with each others pathetic ramblings and knock down anyone who writes anything that isn't within your narrow mindset

But isn' that exactly what you do in your replies.

Okay have a difference of opinion, but please don't play the game "they said it first". Anyone and everyone who doesn't debate in an adult and grown-up manner diminishes their own contributions and arguments. That goes for everyone on whatever side of the line or debate they are on.

[mark.cup]

But to be fair him and one other regular I can think of constantly post rubbish and insults looking for a response.

They both have the total opposite opinion to the majority yet most don't rise to the bate.... I can't say the same for them I'm pretty sure I've been insulted by one or both along the way...

I wish them all the best in their great british wind up

[banner]

The problem with having a good argument with someone is that both parties need to understand what an argument is.

For instance, there are many posts on here about how other industries have poorer pensions than ours and how we should be grateful for any kind of pension. These are not arguments at all.
An argument would be something like, the pension we have may not be sustainable in its current form and we can show it and it will need to be altered.

[tommyrep]

Can we have some more postie bashers please.
We need to hear more about just how pathetic and useless we are.
We need to hear that posties don't deserve the fundamental right to withdraw their labour because you cannot even call what we do labour.
We know we are just glorified paper boys who should be on paper boy wages.
Posties are obviously just jumped up little layabouts who are in dire need of people to come onto this site and tell them what for.
I am a changed man I can tell you. From monday I am going into work and kiss my Dom's feet, ask for my future pension contributions to be put into moya's pension pot, do any overtime available for no extra pay and memo RM every hour thanking them for the privilege of working for them.

Well said, I love the facetious tone.
Urban pirate will be sending you a valentine now! Maybe even some RM brain dead deluded supporters as well.

[tommyrep]

The problem with having a good argument with someone is that both parties need to understand what an argument is.

For instance, there are many posts on here about how other industries have poorer pensions than ours and how we should be grateful for any kind of pension. These are not arguments at all.
An argument would be something like, the pension we have may not be sustainable in its current form and we can show it and it will need to be altered.

[Tman]

The problem with having a good argument with someone is that both parties need to understand what an argument is.
.

Which is another way of saying the age-old simplistic put-down of "you don't understand" or even "you must be stupid if you don't agree with me"
Maybe he understands perfectly well but just doesn't agree with your viewpoint, or even, (gasp) your view could be nonsense?
GLFP makes a fair point.....forums like this are a waste of time if the sheep just follow the trend.

[banner]

The problem with having a good argument with someone is that both parties need to understand what an argument is.
.

Which is another way of saying the age-old simplistic put-down of "you don't understand" or even "you must be stupid if you don't agree with me"
Maybe he understands perfectly well but just doesn't agree with your viewpoint, or even, (gasp) your view could be nonsense?
GLFP makes a fair point.....forums like this are a waste of time if the sheep just follow the trend.

That isn't true at all. An argument is something objective. Feelings about subjects are not arguments. RM will go out of business, your pension is generous, your job is well paid for what you do, you should work 9-5 like many other jobs. Non of these are arguments, they are just someone's subjective opinions.

[glfp]

[quote] That's what she been brought into do - take on the union and force through a modernisation programme, slash jobs.
With Canada Post strikes went from 3 days of action to 36 under her tenure.
She will not bow down to the Unions and strikes if anything of her past is to go by.
ATB[quote]
Graham


That was my original post.
Nothing malicious, opinionated - just a feeling of what the union are up against.

You would do well to remember the saying.
"Keep your friends close, keep you enemies closer.

[chrisj]

The problem with having a good argument with someone is that both parties need to understand what an argument is.

For instance, there are many posts on here about how other industries have poorer pensions than ours and how we should be grateful for any kind of pension. These are not arguments at all.
An argument would be something like, the pension we have may not be sustainable in its current form and we can show it and it will need to be altered.

I do not buy that! I have expressed exactly what you have said and tge typical response is that Most is on this or that and I do not know what I am talking about or that folks have given their life's to RM (without pay - lol) and that they deserve every penny despite the fact that some that started just a few weeks after the intro of DC have given just as much and have faced endured the most change and modernisation by RM.

Anyway, back to the injunction; what do people really expect? I was shocked when the strikes were announced because I was expecting some talks and possible breakdown then a threat and mediation. Yes, I know it will take us beyond Xmas but I believe an all-out strikes at ant time will still be effective - so why ruin Xmas and our reputation and public goodwill?

No need for bloody strikes - let us just do the job properly; they might claim it is just like a strike but I am not talking about strict work-to-rule without OT and the rest but people come in on their time and use the right equipment and cut off if they wish or do OT.

Fancy some here saying that RM had broken the agreement on Part timers working more than full time and not being made... OMG! Have I not been banging on about part time issues and the lack of support from the CWU... Head and brick wall - we are led by ******s ( fill in as necessary).

Why did we not take them to court or urge action from members until now - wait, it is only that many of the old timer and CWU pensions are on the line.

I don't understand fishtank's comment on walk the walk... Is he for or against?

[chrisj]

The problem with having a good argument with someone is that both parties need to understand what an argument is.
.

Which is another way of saying the age-old simplistic put-down of "you don't understand" or even "you must be stupid if you don't agree with me"
Maybe he understands perfectly well but just doesn't agree with your viewpoint, or even, (gasp) your view could be nonsense?
GLFP makes a fair point.....forums like this are a waste of time if the sheep just follow the trend.

That isn't true at all. An argument is something objective. Feelings about subjects are not arguments. RM will go out of business, your pension is generous, your job is well paid for what you do, you should work 9-5 like many other jobs. Non of these are arguments, they are just someone's subjective opinions.

Banner, it might be that you are only reading or commenting on the headlines and summaries.

The argument is that there is a pension deficit that will continue to grow because investments are not doing well anyway and RM faces stiff competition and also need to modernise and invest those lovely profits which are far below the actual revenue.

It is argument to say that you are lucky to get what you are getting because the competition wants a level playing field and other in jobs much harder and more important have had to settle for less; so the company can be competitive and continue to grow and provide us with god's t&c (it does cost a lot - even uniforms that we take for granted).

And this is a private business that has to make decisions; so a 9-5 change is really up to them - they might be wrong and invariably cock things up but that is why they run the business not us... We can try to reason or influence but we cannot refuse to work certain hours as proscribed - the hours have been changing over many decades anyway.

The argument that I took on the job to finish at x time is not valid to me - they can try to accommodate family commitments but when I hear people in their 50s with grown up kids using picking up kids from school as a argument; it is just maddening!

And the CWU leader talking about the time when people receive mail - does he have a clue? Most people work and most letter are not that urgent... As for businesses, let them pay for early delivery - more money for us.

Have I provided any arguments? Or it is just propaganda?

[mark.cup]

Propaganda

[banner]

The problem with having a good argument with someone is that both parties need to understand what an argument is.
.

Which is another way of saying the age-old simplistic put-down of "you don't understand" or even "you must be stupid if you don't agree with me"
Maybe he understands perfectly well but just doesn't agree with your viewpoint, or even, (gasp) your view could be nonsense?
GLFP makes a fair point.....forums like this are a waste of time if the sheep just follow the trend.

That isn't true at all. An argument is something objective. Feelings about subjects are not arguments. RM will go out of business, your pension is generous, your job is well paid for what you do, you should work 9-5 like many other jobs. Non of these are arguments, they are just someone's subjective opinions.

Banner, it might be that you are only reading or commenting on the headlines and summaries.

The argument is that there is a pension deficit that will continue to grow because investments are not doing well anyway and RM faces stiff competition and also need to modernise and invest those lovely profits which are far below the actual revenue.

It is argument to say that you are lucky to get what you are getting because the competition wants a level playing field and other in jobs much harder and more important have had to settle for less; so the company can be competitive and continue to grow and provide us with god's t&c (it does cost a lot - even uniforms that we take for granted).

And this is a private business that has to make decisions; so a 9-5 change is really up to them - they might be wrong and invariably cock things up but that is why they run the business not us... We can try to reason or influence but we cannot refuse to work certain hours as proscribed - the hours have been changing over many decades anyway.

The argument that I took on the job to finish at x time is not valid to me - they can try to accommodate family commitments but when I hear people in their 50s with grown up kids using picking up kids from school as a argument; it is just maddening!

And the CWU leader talking about the time when people receive mail - does he have a clue? Most people work and most letter are not that urgent... As for businesses, let them pay for early delivery - more money for us.

Have I provided any arguments? Or it is just propaganda?

I agree about the pension deficit, but there are different answers as to what should be done. RM accountants say that the wage in retirement pension is unaffordable and worse for postal workers whilst CWU employed accountants say it is.
It is not an argument to just say we should accept any proposal because it beats some other pension somewhere else, that is a non argument.
It is not an argument to say you are lucky to get what you get because you are comparing apples and oranges. No other company has the USO to contend with and it is also contentious to compare employees just because they operate in the same market. Ever eaten at McDonald's and then eaten at handmade burger company? Do you want to compare them on every level?

[fishtank]

The argument is that there is a pension deficit that will continue to grow

No there isn't.
The pension is in surplus.
What headlines have you been reading?

[chrisj]

Correction! It will probably enter into a deficit in a few years. Whatever, billions is quoted by RM...

Personally, I have never thought that final salary pensions are fair or affordable. An opinion I have had since the 90s.

The gist is that it is not affordable; not on top of many other commitments and our terms and conditions; the best in many industries not just courier industry.

The idea that there is no argument is what I am talking about. People choose to ignore other points and dismiss everything as propaganda.

On the issue of working 9-5, I think that is scare mongering from the Union. A 9-5 re for every postman in delivery will not work; even RM cannot be that stupid. Ergo, they do not need to have delivered letters to know a lot about what we do...

As well as pipeline changes and associated effects, RM is probably looking for shifts in delivery and the last shift might take some posties to 5pm - mainly parcel delivery. They are keen to stop the redundancies of the vans after 2-3pm. Of course, there will be other issues such traffic, longer delivery span, job losses in some parts (delivery doing more sorting), people going from one location to another, stress of posties, more spent on van maintenance and other seen and unforeseen consequences.

However, just to say that we are being moved to a 9-5 job is being g economical with the truth.

The Union and RM are playing games - we do not know everything, so I am on the side of caution; worried about my future rather than just the now.

[fishtank]

Personally, I have never thought that final salary pensions are fair or affordable.

Personally, that's nice but we don't have a final salary pension, you see we lost that in 2008 during the first great pension shafting, what we have is a career average pension. Like a final salary pension only shitier, not as shitty as a DC pension bit we're talking about degrees of shittyness now.