DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO

[dvbuk55]

1200 offices either agreed to them or let them come in by EA with no reaction.

We had EA in our office last year.We did want to do something about it,BUT we did not want to invalidate the local ballots.As a consequence our rep was charged( and still is),with trumped up charges. I promise you we would of gave them a spanking other wise....................

Fair play and it should be pointed out that there were a few offices in the same position as yours but that still leaves 1100+ accepting the change..... funny how those people are now the brave!

I think what you know about the acceptance of change through the Pay and Mod Agreement lovejoy you could write on the back of a postage stamp. You speak from wishing not knowing - we know what happened in our delivery offices - you only think you know.

[drb]

What on earth do we gain, as rank and file members from delivery offices, from accepting this agreement? And you can use as many words as you like but I need only the one - Nothing.

We never got together during last year....that is the problem! Also to add are there any part timers in your office? You will find.....to excuse the term...as being shat on!

Have you any ideas if this thing goes through? A contingency plan? My first thought is the part timers.If they want full time.Get it.

Your resource meeting SHOULD include a line manager.

1 in 4 Saturdays. You could have every Saturday but you would rid of your Rest Day Covers.Maybe rotate them with your Mon-Fri Collctions,(pending on driving licence). SA for Saturdays worked. 8 Hours.
You would also create a transport office duty,(keys & Tabs).

You would be in charge of the geo route.This means setting the parameters.Start at 4mph and knock it down to 1 MPH with an 80% call rate,(more if you get more D2D contracts). The walks would have to be re-done,please bear this in mind. Have you enquired about when the sequencing machines are coming in? You could get all the money for your membership ASAP in time for the machines.

There loads more to think about.Forget the menu of options for the time being.Think...then think again.......

[lovejoy]

.Come on Dvbuk I know you are on the ropes tonight and dodging points better my beloved Scunthorpe but no need to stoop...

Well I can imagine your sycophantic adoring fans will be PMing you - but just to put the record straight lovejoy here's a few questions you have not answered, in fact you haven't answered any of them - merely spouted the party line:

What are your credentials? - you questioned mine and I answered honestly - I do actually work in a DO and have carried out every job there except manager over the last 20 odd years.
The 75/25 split is to be policed nationally, it is currently 79/21 so does that mean job losses, and how is the figure to be arrived at?
If it means job losses how is job security a part of this agreement?
Is the projected figure for job losses 24,000 - Higson has already said it will mean fewer jobs - if it means job security for the ones who are left, how about the ones who aren't - do they fall into the category of winners or losers? How long will the ones who are left last after this 3 year agreement?
You conveniently state that there is no payment for D2D but a new delivery supplement - so what replaces the payment for D2D - is it the the remainder of the balance from the loss of the ESA? Which would be £8 pro rata for unlimited workload - or am I misrepresenting the figures - one of us must be?
The revision tools which will determine the workload aren't ready yet - so will they be issued before the ballot?
The fabled 1 in 4 Saturdays maybe even 1 in 3 Matrix, which is as we speak still be worked on, will that be ready before the ballot?
Were any of the advisers to the negotiating team ever delivery officers in recent years or ever or even seen a delivery office?

What on earth do we gain, as rank and file members from delivery offices, from accepting this agreement? And you can use as many words as you like but I need only the one - Nothing.

Oh one last thing - Scunthorpe lost 4-2 to the Seasiders - shame - now I wonder if there is message in that scoreline?

I am off out but will reply to this later...... the rants of somebody on the run!

[pickaname]

The deal is s**t, lovejoy.

You will see when a) it gets thrown out or b) the union faces a funding crisis due to a mass exodus of members who it stabbed in the back.

[lovejoy]

The deal is s**t, lovejoy.

You will see when a) it gets thrown out or b) the union faces a funding crisis due to a mass exodus of members who it stabbed in the back.

This thread is not to debate the agreement..... it is to debate Dvbuks views on where we go in the event of a no vote.

[dvbuk55]

.Come on Dvbuk I know you are on the ropes tonight and dodging points better my beloved Scunthorpe but no need to stoop...

Well I can imagine your sycophantic adoring fans will be PMing you - but just to put the record straight lovejoy here's a few questions you have not answered, in fact you haven't answered any of them - merely spouted the party line:

What are your credentials? - you questioned mine and I answered honestly - I do actually work in a DO and have carried out every job there except manager over the last 20 odd years.
The 75/25 split is to be policed nationally, it is currently 79/21 so does that mean job losses, and how is the figure to be arrived at?
If it means job losses how is job security a part of this agreement?
Is the projected figure for job losses 24,000 - Higson has already said it will mean fewer jobs - if it means job security for the ones who are left, how about the ones who aren't - do they fall into the category of winners or losers? How long will the ones who are left last after this 3 year agreement?
You conveniently state that there is no payment for D2D but a new delivery supplement - so what replaces the payment for D2D - is it the the remainder of the balance from the loss of the ESA? Which would be £8 pro rata for unlimited workload - or am I misrepresenting the figures - one of us must be?
The revision tools which will determine the workload aren't ready yet - so will they be issued before the ballot?
The fabled 1 in 4 Saturdays maybe even 1 in 3 Matrix, which is as we speak still be worked on, will that be ready before the ballot?
Were any of the advisers to the negotiating team ever delivery officers in recent years or ever or even seen a delivery office?

What on earth do we gain, as rank and file members from delivery offices, from accepting this agreement? And you can use as many words as you like but I need only the one - Nothing.

Oh one last thing - Scunthorpe lost 4-2 to the Seasiders - shame - now I wonder if there is message in that scoreline?

I am off out but will reply to this later...... the rants of somebody on the run!

I'm not ranting lovejoy merely asking the same questions you've refused to answer - are you off to get more instructions on what to say lovejoy - perhaps waiting for divine intervention - actually I didn't think HQ worked on Saturdays

[wingmanchillian]

1200 offices either agreed to them or let them come in by EA with no reaction.

We had EA in our office last year.We did want to do something about it,BUT we did not want to invalidate the local ballots.As a consequence our rep was charged( and still is),with trumped up charges. I promise you we would of gave them a spanking other wise....................

Fair play and it should be pointed out that there were a few offices in the same position as yours but that still leaves 1100+ accepting the change..... funny how those people are now the brave!

out of them remaining offices id like to know how many had reps?, were in contact with area reps if no office rep? and how many had reps that had received no training or support from anyone?

[drb]

When is your next AGM? This is the sort of questions that us as "lay members" should be asking the branch. It seems to me that only a minute number of members come out of the woodwork when something such as gargantuan as this happens. We need to be there ALL of the time.

There was no suprise,(as far as I was concerned), that this deal was the biggest change in British Industry. The reps,(well some!),tried to get this message across since January. Our last Members party for example over Christmas had only a very very small number attended. This is a common symptom of Apathy .

Is this really the CWU HQ fault? Or is it ours?

Where are the "grass roots" reps coming from next?

[dvbuk55]

When is your next AGM? This is the sort of questions that us as "lay members" should be asking the branch. It seems to me that only a minute number of members come out of the woodwork when something such as gargantuan as this happens. We need to be there ALL of the time.

There was no suprise,(as far as I was concerned), that this deal was the biggest change in British Industry. The reps,(well some!),tried to get this message across since January. Our last Members party for example over Christmas had only a very very small number attended. This is a common symptom of Apathy .

Is this really the CWU HQ fault? Or is it ours?

Where are the "grass roots" reps coming from next?

You may have seen previous posts drb highlighting the very problem you have outlined here. There is an apathy amongst the membership and one that is not discouraged by those who are involved in union affairs.

There is very little communication between Div, Area, Branch and unit Rep that is communicated directly to the shop floor. Not only has the AGM never been posted in my unit but the branch meetings aren't publicised either. Under normal working conditions it probably doesn't matter too much - it is at times like this you need to know that what you are being told is true and not something to protect those who need the least protection of all of us.

However it may well be a moot question now.

[HootyMacBoob]

The deal is s**t, lovejoy.

You will see when a) it gets thrown out or b) the union faces a funding crisis due to a mass exodus of members who it stabbed in the back.

On your point about a mass exodus of members. Adam Crozier made the statement that RM employees were 25% overpaid and 40% underworked compared to the competition. He was talking about TNT and other non unionised companies so that should give you some idea of what RM would look like without a union. Whether you agree or not with the deal I would hope all on this forum at least understood that we are 25% overpaid due to the sacrifices and strength of the union members over the years.

[dvbuk55]

The deal is s**t, lovejoy.

You will see when a) it gets thrown out or b) the union faces a funding crisis due to a mass exodus of members who it stabbed in the back.

On your point about a mass exodus of members. Adam Crozier made the statement that RM employees were 25% overpaid and 40% underworked compared to the competition. He was talking about TNT and other non unionised companies so that should give you some idea of what RM would look like without a union. Whether you agree or not with the deal I would hope all on this forum at least understood that we are 25% overpaid due to the sacrifices and strength of the union members over the years.

Crozier said it so it must be true therefore we WERE 25% overpaid - and the competition - what competition ? Does anyone else do an end to end service. I would be the first to say that the unions of old had a strong belief in unity and fair play and I am old enough to have been a part of those sacrifices and I do not believe we are 25% overpaid.

[ashadd]

If this was the best deal the CWU could do for us.......then what the feck did RM concede on ???????

[TrueBlueTerrier]

1200 offices either agreed to them or let them come in by EA with no reaction.

We had EA in our office last year.We did want to do something about it,BUT we did not want to invalidate the local ballots.As a consequence our rep was charged( and still is),with trumped up charges. I promise you we would of gave them a spanking other wise....................

They left us alone. Nothing in my unit has changed since the 2007 deal and we had No EA - so try as we might we could not strike or ballot over nothing. Oh sorry there was the later start on Saturdays but that resistance kind of whimpered out it wasn't thought worth fighting over.

[robd]

I can see the argument from both sides,but it concerns me that Lovejoy has elected to engage in an almost playground spat with DVBUK 55,simply because he doesn't share the viewpoint of the officials at H.Q.
Irrospective of who has the greater working knowledge of this deal,the problem will come IF a no vote is returned,because in my opinion,the union,and the members,took industrial action against the employer for completely different reasons.
D2D may be the most contentious issue,and ironically the only winner is the employer,this is a good example because the union has only addressed it from a financial standpoint,a delivery postmen will rightly point to the fact that the payment has not increased for over 10 years,and an increased workload for less renumeration was not an aspiration of any postman.
So the underlying issues for all delivery staff remain,indeed have actually intensified,due to a clear lack of detail in the agreement.
As the union have ticked all their boxes,i.e shorter working week and will not feel they have justification for further I.A. and equally,the members will not want to support the union,as they feel they are not listening,and have returned worse conditions than we previously enjoy.
Dingo/Lovejoy,does this leave us a step nearer the management not negotiating with union,as they don't reflect the interests of the membership?

[MinisterofCucumber]

This proposed deal is so rubbish because the people negotiating on behalf of the workforce had no idea what the workforce wanted.

It seems that RM HQ are replacing a lot of their key positions. CWU HQ also need a shake up.

The interim agreement has been followed since the strike was called off and the world has not ended. We should wait until the new HQs are bedded in before we agree a deal.

If the NEC elections are boycotted and there is a low turnout, would it mean that the NEC positions would have to be open to any candidates and the elections re-run?