National Negotiations – Extended into next week,and the next

[dvbuk55]

There seems to be a lot of "unofficial" leaks as to what the end agreement is going to look like in principle BUT there is never any suggestion as to what we are going to get for it either in fact or principle. Still I am sure that we are going to get to see the gruesome details soon enough.

Your not suggesting someone would drip feed us the bad news and save all the goodies til last dvb.

Oh I sincerely hope so fh - I just can't wait for the goodies, having seen the leaks I'm opening another savings account

[DGP1]

I agree with you dv, it seems that the union want to agree everything RM want, I suggest to you Truth that you come out and do my delivery so that you could see what we are up against (not that I think you would because it would involve you having to spend 6 hours out on delivery, up and down to almost every house, every day, rain, hail, snow, plus having to carry D2Ds that can sometimes weigh more than 11kg just for one loop).


I know we're going to be sold down the road again by our 'leadership' and I can almost guarantee that they'll want us to be greatful for it (lucky to have a job line).

[PostieWithTheMostie!]

Instead of agreeing to an increased workload through more D2Ds why is the union not pressing for full payment for the work we already do ie DSA. The extra money that can be made up through D2Ds is a drop in the ocean compared to what we lose through DSA. Why is the union not making DSA an issue?

Eric why don't you email the CWU leaders and make that point out.. You have 100% workforce behind you.

Also here's a thought if weekly payments of d2d's cease and we're forced to take out more - What happens when we return to work on a Tuesday after a Bank Holiday say do we lose out on the extra 20% obviously we have less time to do them, also lets say they don't arrive on a Monday or Tuesday as has happened in office once or twice and you only have Wednesday onwards to complete what then happens to the 40% extra we lose out on? cause quite clearly if we receive a 1 off payment RM can give them to us on any giving day of the week.

[GHOSTman]

just an observation on what "the Truth" says in his last post. I do agree that the more work we get coming in to the company the better it is for us and royal mail. My main reservation and probably every other postie who has been bullied and harrassed for the past 2 or 3 years is will all this extra work be allocated fairly? And not be based on un realistic savings targets and budget cuts that have plauged the company these last 2 years. It would be great to maximise full time jobs but it has to be done with a manageble work load. How will the union ensure this happens? Can they ensure it happens?

[BELIAL]

Lets just take one facet for the sake of clarity.
CDV's
No lets cut the crap about car derived vans , and the romantic idea everyone currently rides their bike on delivery , less than 25% do ride a bike, but more than 45% use their own car on delivery.

So car derived vans being introduced will stop that , Royal Mail have already produced guidelines in the last two weeks sent to managers ensuring as soon as car derived vans are introduced in your office then private cars on delivery must cease. Yes there are huge questions whether they will work everywhere as the evidence suggests they work in some places and not in others but hey that becomes Royal Mails problem not ours if they introduce them and they dont work everywhere.

For starters the figures you use do not reflect the state of affairs in my DO. Cit 75% bikes ;15% hct; 10% cars. Obviously this does not invalidate your national figures but maybe further contributions will provide greater clarity( what is the source of your data ?has it been independently verified?)
As for the point of RM prohibiting private car use as soon as CDV's are introduced,blimey what about the H+S implications. That statement is tantamount to an admission that the business is at present reliant on workers use of their private property for effective service provision ,shocking.
Hats off to management for successfully identifying the growth in packet traffic ,sharply perceptive.
So what is the strategy to be?
Having identified a growth market do you
A) Cobble together a half arsed plan to just cover anticipated growth ,whilst at the same time screwing more surplus value from your already over-stretched workforce?
Or B) Embrace the changes in the market and plan with vision for an improved service with higher net value and greater rewards and benefits for all concerned?
Time will tell, but I know where my money will be placed

[Big Daz]

Eric in response to you comments about DSA and the CWU

They have!!!!

Who do you think gave evidence to the enquiry on Royal Mail issues including DSA which was published as the Hooper report.

Who do you think convinced the government to hold a review of liberalasation the postal sector? It was the CWU!!

CWU have been banging on about this for ages and achived a measure of success. DSA costs have been debated in the House of lords during ther passage of the Postal Services Bill.

Peers and MP's continue to press the governmnet to go ahead with regulatory reform as it has nothing do with the financial aspects of the PSB. The regulatory reform needs to happen regardless of ownership status and regardless of pensions.


The government will not "cherry pick" the PSB, meaning we are stuck with postcomm and their daft ideas and inferior mandate.


The regulatory part of the PSB which is a big improvement on the current set up can be found at the following link.

http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file51573.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

However the CWU should not take its eye of the ball and should make as big a fuss about regulatory changes being on hold as they do about the pension changes being on hold.

[fishtank]

Eric in response to you comments about DSA and the CWU

They have!!!!

Who do you think gave evidence to the enquiry on Royal Mail issues including DSA which was published as the Hooper report.

Who do you think convinced the government to hold a review of liberalasation the postal sector? It was the CWU!!

CWU have been banging on about this for ages and achived a measure of success. DSA costs have been debated in the House of lords during ther passage of the Postal Services Bill.

Peers and MP's continue to press the governmnet to go ahead with regulatory reform as it has nothing do with the financial aspects of the PSB. The regulatory reform needs to happen regardless of ownership status and regardless of pensions.


The government will not "cherry pick" the PSB, meaning we are stuck with postcomm and their daft ideas and inferior mandate.


The regulatory part of the PSB which is a big improvement on the current set up can be found at the following link.

http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file51573.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

However the CWU should not take its eye of the ball and should make as big a fuss about regulatory changes being on hold as they do about the pension changes being on hold.

No offence Daz and don't take it personally but this about sums up politics for me.
How much debate?, how much man/hours spent? Result=square root of feck all.

[roseoldboy]

I currently work 30 hrs per week and recieve £260.70 for this. full timers recieve around £347 for their 40 hours. if their hours are reduced to 35 it will take their hourly rate to roughly
£10 per hour . Does that mean i will recieve £300 for my 30 hours or will we have full timers on over £10 per hour and part timers on £8.67 per hour. meaning they will recieve £87 extra for 5 hours?

[fishtank]

I currently work 30 hrs per week and recieve £260.70 for this. full timers recieve around £347 for their 40 hours. if their hours are reduced to 35 it will take their hourly rate to roughly
£10 per hour . Does that mean i will recieve £300 for my 30 hours or will we have full timers on over £10 per hour and part timers on £8.67 per hour. meaning they will recieve £87 extra for 5 hours?

No,the most likely way to move to 35hrs is to stop paying your meal relief therefore your paid hours would probably be 27.5 more or less.

[The truth!]

rose it means your pay will be increased up to the rate of £10 per hour if their is 35 hour net working week.

[fishtank]

rose it means your pay will be increased up to the rate of £10 per hour if their is 35 hour net working week.

Yes but less paid hours and aint that the truth.

[spilie]

truth there we go every statement followed by "could protect full time jobs" or "maxamise full time jobs" now you cut the s**t and listen for a change, we know change is coming but we want to shape it, and central to that is National agreements not a loose framework to be moulded to fit individual offices, when we have a national standard we take the B&H stick from individual office managers, we all know getting a deal to suit all is near on impossible but the most crucial element for me is National standards for all, so whatever comes out of this give us a NATIONAL AGREEMENT, Or F**k off

[The truth!]

spile telling someone to f**k off on the internet is very mature.

Look for the upteen time the national agreement will provide , national standards on indoor work , a national agreement on geo route , a framework for car dervied vans , an agreed revison framework , an agreed health and Safety framework and a number of other agreed standards including door to door. ALL MANDATORY APPLIED EVERYWHERE.

What wont be MADATORY in the agreement is to tell all 1500 delivery offices you have to start at this time or finish at that time or you have to have the same type of attendaces. Neither will it state that you have to go past 3.5 hours or that you have to have a certain overtime ratio, or a ratio of part timers. All of that should be left to you to decide on what the members want in the unit. Not all offices want the same.

Now Fishtank the question was will my pay go up to £10 per hour if i am part time and the answer is yet. Of course meal reliefs will then become unpaid but lets face it how many members take their meal relief now. Why do you think the Union has run campaign after campaign about doing the job properly.

I bet everyone is going to say they take their meal relief on here but you know and I know there are a lot around who do not. Legally anyone is entitled to a meal relief after 4 hours and 50 I think the ratio is so no one will be denied a break. The question is do you want an higher rate of pay which will mean that your starting pay will possibly be £350 for a 35 hour net working week which then allows percentage pay rises in years 2 and 3 of a deal be worth signifcantly more. Or do we contiue to have meal relefs which a significant amount of members on delivery do not have or choose to put them at the end of their duty. ( what good is that !!)

[fishtank]

the truth wrote
"Now Fishtank the question was will my pay go up to £10 per hour if i am part time and the answer is yet. Of course meal reliefs will then become unpaid but lets face it how many members take their meal relief now. Why do you think the Union has run campaign after campaign about doing the job properly."


No I think you'll find the question was.

roseoldboy wrote:
"Does that mean i will recieve £300 for my 30 hours"

And the answer to that is NO because you will NOT be paid for 30 hours you WILL be paid for 27.5 hours.
We are not interested in "half truths" the truth.

[spilie]

woah hold it truth didnt tell you personally to f**k off and you know that so that sorts that, and if you want me to read things into what you have just said then fine i would tell you to your face anything i have said on here just PM me and we can arrange that, as for your answer about national agreements then fine if you are saying everything will be national but the start finish times, the ratio of full/part time, the attendance patterns and the lenght of deliveries then great we are right where we started, a target for budget slashing managers to bully and intimidate weak offices into agreements on all of the above oh but wait D2D will be agreed nationally, what back up will we have if we refuse whats on offer from local D.O`s?