No TBT we are now a joined up integrated privatised industry, it is a company wide policy and an extension of the will do culture, there is no longer an us and them, it is now a we, maybe there should be two e's in thatTrueBlueTerrier wrote:dvbuk55 wrote:C'mon now Brain that philosophy doesn't fit in with the new managerial inspired "can do culture"Brain Fury wrote:There almost certainly won't (I hope).dvbuk55 wrote:Don't worry Brain I'm sure there'll be a place for you in the New Order
The "Can do culture" is in Operations only AFAIK. Brain is probably still in the "Will Do Culture"
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TNT in Liverpool
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dvbuk55
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
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Brain Fury
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
What "quotes"? The bits in black were from your post of the Courier Newsflash. The bits in red were my own.daveyeff wrote:well, i dont think i am wrong. and that will materialise in the next few weeks. and even if it turns out it isnt world class mail staff thats going to bite the bullet, then thats fair enough,,i dont particularly want to see ANYONE lose their livelyhood. as for the explantion, its straight forward apart from the fact the ''quotes'' you made werent you're own. i saw them published elsewhere....but either way...WCM is coming to an end in its present form and its ''replacement'' will not have the money thrown at it like the other garbage did....the shareholders will see to that.Brain Fury wrote:Explanation not simple enough for you to understand? Or just don't want to admit you were wrong?daveyeff wrote:ok,,,,heres another short and sweet one.....time will tell.
Oh and "being the best" has been knocking around for ages. Everybody seems so certain that WCM is going to be curtailed or rebranded even if there is no evidence for it - as you say we'll have to see.
Last edited by Brain Fury on 29 Mar 2014, 13:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Brain Fury
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
We've always had a can do culture where I work. You're right though that it needs to be spread to Operations.TrueBlueTerrier wrote:dvbuk55 wrote:C'mon now Brain that philosophy doesn't fit in with the new managerial inspired "can do culture"Brain Fury wrote:There almost certainly won't (I hope).dvbuk55 wrote:Don't worry Brain I'm sure there'll be a place for you in the New Order
The "Can do culture" is in Operations only AFAIK. Brain is probably still in the "Will Do Culture"
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dvbuk55
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
One hesitates to ask what role you fulfil Brain, just in case it involves assassination if you tell usBrain Fury wrote:We've always had a can do culture where I work. You're right though that it needs to be spread to Operations.
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TrueBlueTerrier
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
I've worked in a "Can Do Culture", I even voluntary gave up my Saturdays off because it worked well. The reason it worked well, and conversely why it won't work in Royal Mail until there is a real culture change, is that there was respect and trust at all levels in the Business, and that everyone was trained properly and felt that their job was important, and that their own opinions and suggestions were taken seriously.
Sometimes I think its Royal Mail Policy to suppress initiative, or progression.
Royal Mail micro manage too much for a can do culture - they don't trust each other to get the job done so they ride each other shoulders every day.
Royal Mail in operations are flexible only when it benefits the business - if they aren't flexible when colleagues need/want it then those colleagues are less likely to pull out all the stops when the business needs it. There are posties who used to never claim when they went over because they accepted that they finished earlier on other days and it balanced out. Now because of the "Work all Paid Hours" people no longer will work over without being paid - so the effect is less flexibility.
Royal mail don't do real training and development at any level in Operations. From the newest postie starting on his first day there is zero formal training, or rather the formal training is not the same across the business. To managers going on 1 day seminars which in no way whatsoever helps them become better managers and leaders. You need a minimum amount of classroom time to do the groundwork and 1 day every couple of months is not sufficient.
Even something as basic as WTL and the courier so how far Royal Mail are from having a can do culture. If you want people to worker harder for you then don't use platitudes and buzz words, and don't patronise them. Treat them as the adults they are and tell them as much as you can warts and all, and you'll be surprised how quick you gain their respect.
Sometimes I think its Royal Mail Policy to suppress initiative, or progression.
Royal Mail micro manage too much for a can do culture - they don't trust each other to get the job done so they ride each other shoulders every day.
Royal Mail in operations are flexible only when it benefits the business - if they aren't flexible when colleagues need/want it then those colleagues are less likely to pull out all the stops when the business needs it. There are posties who used to never claim when they went over because they accepted that they finished earlier on other days and it balanced out. Now because of the "Work all Paid Hours" people no longer will work over without being paid - so the effect is less flexibility.
Royal mail don't do real training and development at any level in Operations. From the newest postie starting on his first day there is zero formal training, or rather the formal training is not the same across the business. To managers going on 1 day seminars which in no way whatsoever helps them become better managers and leaders. You need a minimum amount of classroom time to do the groundwork and 1 day every couple of months is not sufficient.
Even something as basic as WTL and the courier so how far Royal Mail are from having a can do culture. If you want people to worker harder for you then don't use platitudes and buzz words, and don't patronise them. Treat them as the adults they are and tell them as much as you can warts and all, and you'll be surprised how quick you gain their respect.
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daveyeff
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
i was on about the RED quotes,.....ive seen them before but i cant remember where so i dont think they are yours. maybe that email you posted that you recieved then deleted. not sure but i know ive read them elsewhere so they arnt unique. and its the first time ive seen ''being the best''......anyone else?? must just be me then.Brain Fury wrote:What "quotes"? The bits in black were from your post of the Courier Newsflash. The bits in red were my own.daveyeff wrote:well, i dont think i am wrong. and that will materialise in the next few weeks. and even if it turns out it isnt world class mail staff thats going to bite the bullet, then thats fair enough,,i dont particularly want to see ANYONE lose their livelyhood. as for the explantion, its straight forward apart from the fact the ''quotes'' you made werent you're own. i saw them published elsewhere....but either way...WCM is coming to an end in its present form and its ''replacement'' will not have the money thrown at it like the other garbage did....the shareholders will see to that.Brain Fury wrote:Explanation not simple enough for you to understand? Or just don't want to admit you were wrong?daveyeff wrote:ok,,,,heres another short and sweet one.....time will tell.
Oh and "being the best" has been knocking around for ages. Everybody seems so certain that WCM is going to be curtailed or rebranded even if there is no evidence for it - as you say we'll have to see.
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Brain Fury
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
The post I deleted was in answer to Clashcityrocker asking if I had seen the Courier Newsflash. The quote marks got screwed up and my answer appeared mixed in with his original post.daveyeff wrote:i was on about the RED quotes,.....ive seen them before but i cant remember where so i dont think they are yours. maybe that email you posted that you recieved then deleted. not sure but i know ive read them elsewhere so they arnt unique. and its the first time ive seen ''being the best''......anyone else?? must just be me then.Brain Fury wrote:What "quotes"? The bits in black were from your post of the Courier Newsflash. The bits in red were my own.daveyeff wrote:well, i dont think i am wrong. and that will materialise in the next few weeks. and even if it turns out it isnt world class mail staff thats going to bite the bullet, then thats fair enough,,i dont particularly want to see ANYONE lose their livelyhood. as for the explantion, its straight forward apart from the fact the ''quotes'' you made werent you're own. i saw them published elsewhere....but either way...WCM is coming to an end in its present form and its ''replacement'' will not have the money thrown at it like the other garbage did....the shareholders will see to that.Brain Fury wrote:Explanation not simple enough for you to understand? Or just don't want to admit you were wrong?daveyeff wrote:ok,,,,heres another short and sweet one.....time will tell.
Oh and "being the best" has been knocking around for ages. Everybody seems so certain that WCM is going to be curtailed or rebranded even if there is no evidence for it - as you say we'll have to see.
The red comments were all my own work. I was taking your post asking for a translation in layman's terms at face value. There would never be an official explanation in such blunt terms.
Moya has been going on about "being the best" in Courier for at least 12 months. I don't see it as a title for anything and particularly not WCM. The thing is that RM seem reasonably happy with the way WCM is going so I'd be amazed if they thought in needed rebranding. There are still plenty of people being trained as auditors to support the planned expansion of WCM and as I said it has been suggested to non-operational managers that I know that getting WCM skills would be a good move. I'm not planning to be around after the summer so I am not rushing.
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Brain Fury
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
Well you know I am not going to be explicit about that anymore than others are prepared to name the office they work at. TBT got it right but I'm not going any further than that.dvbuk55 wrote:One hesitates to ask what role you fulfil Brain, just in case it involves assassination if you tell usBrain Fury wrote:We've always had a can do culture where I work. You're right though that it needs to be spread to Operations.I look to your pseudonym and wonder if it is perhaps akin to Ai or I robot
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daveyeff
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
nah..nah.. ive definately seen the quote you put in red about ofcom not doing anything to stop tnt expanding,,,I KNOW I HAVE, and i have to say it was not from you're post. i have to say ''no brain''. 
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Brain Fury
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
I understand what you're saying and all I can say in response is that from what I am told, Royal Mail senior management seem to agree. They seem to accept that something like "can do culture" cannot happen in isolation from other changes across the board. That means changes in attitude from everybody - that much was made clear to all the Ops Managers at the recent conference. To pick up your point on training, they have recently launched a multi-million pound training programme for front-line managers and I believe some managers have already been attending a trial of a new development programme. I don't have the details of what it involves. There are also changes happening to allow operations managers to spend more time managing the operation and for example less on "conference calls" etc. It seems that they are trying to create the right conditions for what you describe although of course it remains to be seen how effective it is and how quickly change can be implemented. I don't underestimate the difficulty. However, do you agree that the emphasis isn't just on managers. IMO changes in attitudes and approach will be necessary on both sides. Having spent some time on this board I don't underestimate the difficulty of achieving that either.TrueBlueTerrier wrote:I've worked in a "Can Do Culture", I even voluntary gave up my Saturdays off because it worked well. The reason it worked well, and conversely why it won't work in Royal Mail until there is a real culture change, is that there was respect and trust at all levels in the Business, and that everyone was trained properly and felt that their job was important, and that their own opinions and suggestions were taken seriously.
Sometimes I think its Royal Mail Policy to suppress initiative, or progression.
Royal Mail micro manage too much for a can do culture - they don't trust each other to get the job done so they ride each other shoulders every day.
Royal Mail in operations are flexible only when it benefits the business - if they aren't flexible when colleagues need/want it then those colleagues are less likely to pull out all the stops when the business needs it. There are posties who used to never claim when they went over because they accepted that they finished earlier on other days and it balanced out. Now because of the "Work all Paid Hours" people no longer will work over without being paid - so the effect is less flexibility.
Royal mail don't do real training and development at any level in Operations. From the newest postie starting on his first day there is zero formal training, or rather the formal training is not the same across the business. To managers going on 1 day seminars which in no way whatsoever helps them become better managers and leaders. You need a minimum amount of classroom time to do the groundwork and 1 day every couple of months is not sufficient.
Even something as basic as WTL and the courier so how far Royal Mail are from having a can do culture. If you want people to worker harder for you then don't use platitudes and buzz words, and don't patronise them. Treat them as the adults they are and tell them as much as you can warts and all, and you'll be surprised how quick you gain their respect.
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Brain Fury
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
Well I never claimed that I was the only person with that view and I'm certainly not the only person talking about it. I've seen it in other posts too (Fishtank perhaps or TBT?)daveyeff wrote:nah..nah.. ive definately seen the quote you put in red about ofcom not doing anything to stop tnt expanding,,,I KNOW I HAVE, and i have to say it was not from you're post. i have to say ''no brain''.
Doesn't make it wrong though.
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daveyeff
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
no it doesnt, but you said it was you're quote. anyways,,, ive had enough of the wcm banter and wether its stopping or going. got my understanding of what is going to happen and you've got your understanding.Brain Fury wrote:Well I never claimed that I was the only person with that view and I'm certainly not the only person talking about it. I've seen it in other posts too (Fishtank perhaps or TBT?)daveyeff wrote:nah..nah.. ive definately seen the quote you put in red about ofcom not doing anything to stop tnt expanding,,,I KNOW I HAVE, and i have to say it was not from you're post. i have to say ''no brain''.
Doesn't make it wrong though.
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TrueBlueTerrier
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
I agree there has to be a culture change from the CWU grades as well, the representation from the Union has to better, more professional and more open than it is as present. There has to be recognition from the shop floor that Managers and Reps must have a closer working relationship, not just for the benefit of Royal Mail but for its employees as well.Brain Fury wrote: However, do you agree that the emphasis isn't just on managers. IMO changes in attitudes and approach will be necessary on both sides. Having spent some time on this board I don't underestimate the difficulty of achieving that either.
There has to be recognition that some decisions won't go our way and we can't always go for an adversarial approach. However the business has also to realise that they have to give some concessions as well. Both sides need to approach things pragmatically and not with a how far can we push them attitude. There has to be a more adult way of dealing with other employees. Just for instance people need to realise sometimes we are own worst enemies, the constant fall back to seniority (sometimes even if its illegal) when other approaches can be a lot fairer and less adversial. Or people only working their own duties on their day off and not taking into consideration their day off cover person. We also need to be fairer to each other, if you are finished and still have time left in your duty why not help out another duty instead of heading back to the office for an early knock. Also we need to realise that the bosses job is to tell us what to do, and as long as they are being fair, transparent, professional and respectful then we should be as well.
However, through my turgid list there is one single thread running through the background and it is that it won't work without a change of ethos from management and that's been promised in every agreement since I started. However, I am hopeful though not completely convinced that with some of the changes at board level we might indeed be seeing a change even if it is in nascent stages.
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maisymoo04
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
Just spoke to a family member in Liverpool and said TNT postie in their road now 520 pm

"Some day I will have the bottle to take the money"
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dvbuk55
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Re: TNT in Liverpool
Not too shocking really he may well have done 2 deliveries or only started at 12. Some of our guys are out until that time but they only start at 0900 and go over to complete.maisymoo04 wrote:Just spoke to a family member in Liverpool and said TNT postie in their road now 520 pm![]()