smok3y666 wrote:I never understand why Part Timers and I was one myself, come to RM on a PT contract expecting to or hoping to be made up to full time and then moan when they don't? And moan when everyone else gets the OT becuase they need the money. I understand you "need the money" but then you shouldn't have taken the job PT and had any hope of getting FT hours. I'm sure when I left PF FT and came to RM PT nowehere in the job description did it say anything about a glimmer of hope of maybe one day being FT, I just got lucky and our rep is half decent.
A lot of people first get in the door via agency. Most of the agency jobs advertise as full-time or upto full-time, and explicitly express that there may be opportunities for a permanent position.
Only later do they find out those permanent opportunities are a 5 hour contract with Royal Mail.
Upto full time is like saying my broadband is upto 200mb and the key words in the last sentence are "MAY BE". One of the questions I always asked and wanted to know and I presume most others do are what are the hours? Are you suggesting that most people blindly walk in not knowing? If I saw a job being advertised as upto full time and possibly perm first thing I'd want to know is guaranteed min hours and what kind of chance if there of perm position? Most part timers on here like most of the ones I work with presume they're going to get non guaranteed overtime everyweek and then moan when they don't get it because they need the money.
I've gone over this in a earlier post but it looks like some people here aren't getting the big picture. Lets say you want to be a postal worker, you may have already worked for RM as a temp at Christmas or through an agency or not at all. You look online for a position but notice that all the contracts available in your area and indeed the whole country are only part time. This is disappointing as the lower hours means you will be not earning enough to live but can supplement the lower hours with S/A, but you apply anyway as you want to be a postal worker and people have to retire at some point and jobs must be available. You apply and ask about increasing your hours and O/T at the interview and are told that RM are no longer hiring F/T workers from the get go but in time you "maybe" will be able to increase your hours once you have more experience in the office, and there are always O/T "opportunities" for those who want to earn more.
The whole hiring process is made of lies, not only are you not made up to F/T regardless of the amount of time you have worked but there is also no O/T available. It's super simple, we were lied to during our interviews and given false information as to career progression and O/T availability. It is impossible to become a F/T postal worker from the get go so you are forced to be P/T with no way to increase your hours and like I said in my previous post, some of us are trapped in this job with the vain hope that things will get better or we will be treated equally.
Whats disappointing is that I agree with the idea of making new postal workers P/T as it allows us to learn routes and RM procedure and get a feel of the job without making commitments or making RM invest in someone who will then leave. I would then have a career progression system like most jobs and after a year or 2 you will be made up because you've earned it and have shown that you are cost efficient and have the knowledge to do the job well. Instead RM string you along expecting you to do the same job as a F/T but forever without any the benefits all because its cheaper.
All this does is alienate and divide staff.
So in the first paragraph you say that in the interview the interviewer will tell the person RM are NOT hiring FT people then in the second you say RM are spwewing lies and telling them they will be made up to FT? And I left a FT position at Parcelforce some 3 years ago to go work for RM on a PT contract of 30 hours. I was also told that there would be no more FT positions in RM and that I could make hours up through OT. 5 months ago after 2 people left I was offered a FT contract after being there 11 years under the seniority rule because so they must be still making people up to FT because I was 1 of 2 people in our office that did get made up. I guess it depends on how good your rep is?
As for OT you must be in the wrong office because there's OT a'plenty in our office.
I'm speaking from experience, when I joined RM the only job I could get was P/T. When I applied and went to my interview, I questioned my interviewer about hours and what I could do to increase them as I wanted a F/T job. I was told that some in my office were once P/T and had done a couple of years and now are F/T rest day covers but could not be employed as F/T straight away. He also told me that I could do collections and start earlier if I wanted and that overtime was very common. I also asked my trainer when I went to my induction day at a distribution centre and was told to speak to my DOM about it when I started. Upon starting my new job and getting to grips with it I asked about O/T and S/A and was told that all collections were covered and not available to me and if I requested O/T to finish, its was due to me being too slow and was denied. They forced me to stay past my time as the F/T drivers duty time finished later then mine or was told to go back out if the F/T driver finished early and refused to drop me back or pick me up as they were "busy". I had countless arguments with my DOM about being paid when I was late back, I wasn't even told that I had a break or how to apply for O/T and had to rely on post it notes to show my working hours.
In my previous post I am saying that RM give you a false sense of what your future career will look like. When I joined, I was under the impression that advancement was an option, clearly I was wrong. In your case and with others, I can see its not the same everywhere but if your're stuck somewhere with a **** rep who's pals with management then its basically a lottery at that point. I look at all the F/T staff who have been posties for 10+ years finish hours before their duty time and disappear at 11:00 and then come back in to do some S/A, all the while I'm refused O/T and any S/A. All I'm saying is that clearly this is unfair and disenfranchises P/T the ability earn more or feel valued at work.
When i started under the old 6 day week system there were full time leave reserve duties which were the usual route to a full time contract for those who could put up with being moved around. Part timers who just wanted to work part time could pick a part time duty. This gave everyone a fair chance. Pressure overtime was always paid and never questioned. Its a disgrace the way newbies and part timers are treated now.
CHUCKYPIG wrote:Yes Part Timers are shafted. I agree with a lot of what is said on here. Managers/Union/Full timers trying to bully us into coming in before our start times so they can get out early. Its a two tier workforce man. Agree that if the CEO wants to avert strike dangle a carrot in front of the part timers, divide and rule, its already a two tier system.
I now start at 12.30, the managers/others sometimes try to get me in early but I just stick to my guns and come in when I want. Yes I would like to have my normal hours but I've accepted I've got the mornings to myself and I prefer routine. So 12.30 it is every day. Actually I like having the van to myself, I can prep it my way, park up where I want, do the loops where I want and take my breaks where I want. The job is better now I can do it my way :-)
That’s a very good way of looking at it. Sometimes I think our biggest gripe (PT hours) is also our greatest weapon, because when we choose to just work our hours there’s nothing management can do and deep down they know it. Here there’s few arguments with management about cutting off, and if you’re on the 12.30/1 start there’s only so much you can do in your 5 hours.
Just to follow my earlier post about some of us PT staff shafting ourselves, a lot of us were the first to put our hand up and agree to use our cars. While it meant those volunteers can still start on a morning instead of 1pm, all indoor work is removed because they are simply told to go straight from home to the start of their delivery. Sure, now and again they might finish early but that’s all the OT wiped out; how do you book OT if you’re never going back to the depot plus do you really want to be doing more than 5 hours outdoor delivery. Also they are now working for free by driving in their own time to the start of the round, some of which are half an hour away from the depot. One guy here lives the other side of the county, so now has a 1 hour / 50 mile trip to the start point. Lastly not sure how successful they are getting paid mileage. It’s like a Venus flytrap, sometimes we all have to look at the bigger picture.
A chap in our office drove straight from home to start delivery each day - saving himself about 1hr's worth of 'work' per day as there is no indoor work/drive out to duty/return to office (he passes duty on way to office).
He's now complaining he's not getting any overtime - he genuinely thinks he is being screwed over yet he is more than happy to take the 'undertime'.
Sometimes we struggle to see ahead. For me it was clear if I agreed to use my car (I’ve been asked twice) I’d lose the 7/8 hours OT I do a week which is mostly indoor OT.
Same with yesterday, I worked my full hours. A quick glance at the signing in sheet shows most were done by 1pm, a good 2 hours early, some were even done before 12. Even one of the union guys who’s forever telling us to start on time and take our breaks (which I do) was done and dusted at 1.30pm. If there’s no work fair enough but there were trays of mech lying around, full York’s of stuff waiting to be done on IPS.
These people have to realise all that will happen is hours will be taken out of the budget and/or they’ll be expected to do more work in their hours.
Big changes have to come from all of us.
The day is gonna come when we’re all gonna have to testify.
Been working for RM for 18 months and I am still completely baffled at how things are ran.
I am on a part time contract. I accepted part time hours to give me a bit of flexibility in my life.
As has been mentioned before, the PT role means getting pushed from pillar to post with no structure to the job at all. A lot of this I can deal with, but the one thing that gets me is how my contract hours are worked out. I am on 24 hrs (4.48 per day over a 5 day week).
I have no contracted start or finish time. So when I am filling out the paperwork, why am I asked to start my contract hours 4.48 before the duty end time, as opposed to 4 48 from the time I actually start?
If I insisted on only doing my contract hours, will this mean I can not start at the duty start time and work my 4.48 and finish? Or will I be forced to start 4.48 before the duty end time?
Imod wrote:Been working for RM for 18 months and I am still completely baffled at how things are ran.
I am on a part time contract. I accepted part time hours to give me a bit of flexibility in my life.
As has been mentioned before, the PT role means getting pushed from pillar to post with no structure to the job at all. A lot of this I can deal with, but the one thing that gets me is how my contract hours are worked out. I am on 24 hrs (4.48 per day over a 5 day week).
I have no contracted start or finish time. So when I am filling out the paperwork, why am I asked to start my contract hours 4.48 before the duty end time, as opposed to 4 48 from the time I actually start?
If I insisted on only doing my contract hours, will this mean I can not start at the duty start time and work my 4.48 and finish? Or will I be forced to start 4.48 before the duty end time?
Sorry if I haven't explained very well.
It comes down to van availability due to the van sharing being on hold, they don't want you to come in and no van be available because you've got limited hours to prep and finish your duty, they'd rather have you in as late as possible and make sure a van is there waiting for you regardless of what you've got going on. In my office I've started doing my shift at 12:30 and work till 17:00 everyday regardless of if there is a van or not. Speak to your DOM and ask if you can have a set start time as I assume the duty times vary from day to day and say that you can't keep changing your start/finish times, no one else is so why should you? Speak to your CWU rep as well and explain the situation.
The current situation is awful and P/T need more representation in our DOs and within the CWU if we're being treated like this.
CHUCKYPIG wrote:Yes Part Timers are shafted. I agree with a lot of what is said on here. Managers/Union/Full timers trying to bully us into coming in before our start times so they can get out early. Its a two tier workforce man. Agree that if the CEO wants to avert strike dangle a carrot in front of the part timers, divide and rule, its already a two tier system.
I now start at 12.30, the managers/others sometimes try to get me in early but I just stick to my guns and come in when I want. Yes I would like to have my normal hours but I've accepted I've got the mornings to myself and I prefer routine. So 12.30 it is every day. Actually I like having the van to myself, I can prep it my way, park up where I want, do the loops where I want and take my breaks where I want. The job is better now I can do it my way :-)
That’s a very good way of looking at it. Sometimes I think our biggest gripe (PT hours) is also our greatest weapon, because when we choose to just work our hours there’s nothing management can do and deep down they know it. Here there’s few arguments with management about cutting off, and if you’re on the 12.30/1 start there’s only so much you can do in your 5 hours.
Just to follow my earlier post about some of us PT staff shafting ourselves, a lot of us were the first to put our hand up and agree to use our cars. While it meant those volunteers can still start on a morning instead of 1pm, all indoor work is removed because they are simply told to go straight from home to the start of their delivery. Sure, now and again they might finish early but that’s all the OT wiped out; how do you book OT if you’re never going back to the depot plus do you really want to be doing more than 5 hours outdoor delivery. Also they are now working for free by driving in their own time to the start of the round, some of which are half an hour away from the depot. One guy here lives the other side of the county, so now has a 1 hour / 50 mile trip to the start point. Lastly not sure how successful they are getting paid mileage. It’s like a Venus flytrap, sometimes we all have to look at the bigger picture.
A chap in our office drove straight from home to start delivery each day - saving himself about 1hr's worth of 'work' per day as there is no indoor work/drive out to duty/return to office (he passes duty on way to office).
He's now complaining he's not getting any overtime - he genuinely thinks he is being screwed over yet he is more than happy to take the 'undertime'.
Sometimes we struggle to see ahead. For me it was clear if I agreed to use my car (I’ve been asked twice) I’d lose the 7/8 hours OT I do a week which is mostly indoor OT.
Same with yesterday, I worked my full hours. A quick glance at the signing in sheet shows most were done by 1pm, a good 2 hours early, some were even done before 12. Even one of the union guys who’s forever telling us to start on time and take our breaks (which I do) was done and dusted at 1.30pm. If there’s no work fair enough but there were trays of mech lying around, full York’s of stuff waiting to be done on IPS.
These people have to realise all that will happen is hours will be taken out of the budget and/or they’ll be expected to do more work in their hours.
Big changes have to come from all of us.
Never use your personal vehicle to deliver post! Who is asking you to do this? Not the DOM I hope, it is serious. If mail gets stolen or you're involved in an accident you'll get hit with a £300 fine and sacked, please don't risk it. As for the person who keeps asking you, speak to your CWU rep and explain what is happening or ring them directly. If you get caught you'll get sacked not to mention you'll probably get your car sized if the police nick you on the road, look here: https://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communi ... 15&t=46941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What is awful is that the person who is asking knows better and doesn't care about you or your livelihood or safety. If it is your DOM or line manager then all I can say is I wouldn't be surprised, all they care about is clearing frames and getting tracked done, they don't care if you lose your licence or job. Disgusting...
CHUCKYPIG wrote:Yes Part Timers are shafted. I agree with a lot of what is said on here. Managers/Union/Full timers trying to bully us into coming in before our start times so they can get out early. Its a two tier workforce man. Agree that if the CEO wants to avert strike dangle a carrot in front of the part timers, divide and rule, its already a two tier system.
I now start at 12.30, the managers/others sometimes try to get me in early but I just stick to my guns and come in when I want. Yes I would like to have my normal hours but I've accepted I've got the mornings to myself and I prefer routine. So 12.30 it is every day. Actually I like having the van to myself, I can prep it my way, park up where I want, do the loops where I want and take my breaks where I want. The job is better now I can do it my way :-)
That’s a very good way of looking at it. Sometimes I think our biggest gripe (PT hours) is also our greatest weapon, because when we choose to just work our hours there’s nothing management can do and deep down they know it. Here there’s few arguments with management about cutting off, and if you’re on the 12.30/1 start there’s only so much you can do in your 5 hours.
Just to follow my earlier post about some of us PT staff shafting ourselves, a lot of us were the first to put our hand up and agree to use our cars. While it meant those volunteers can still start on a morning instead of 1pm, all indoor work is removed because they are simply told to go straight from home to the start of their delivery. Sure, now and again they might finish early but that’s all the OT wiped out; how do you book OT if you’re never going back to the depot plus do you really want to be doing more than 5 hours outdoor delivery. Also they are now working for free by driving in their own time to the start of the round, some of which are half an hour away from the depot. One guy here lives the other side of the county, so now has a 1 hour / 50 mile trip to the start point. Lastly not sure how successful they are getting paid mileage. It’s like a Venus flytrap, sometimes we all have to look at the bigger picture.
A chap in our office drove straight from home to start delivery each day - saving himself about 1hr's worth of 'work' per day as there is no indoor work/drive out to duty/return to office (he passes duty on way to office).
He's now complaining he's not getting any overtime - he genuinely thinks he is being screwed over yet he is more than happy to take the 'undertime'.
Sometimes we struggle to see ahead. For me it was clear if I agreed to use my car (I’ve been asked twice) I’d lose the 7/8 hours OT I do a week which is mostly indoor OT.
Same with yesterday, I worked my full hours. A quick glance at the signing in sheet shows most were done by 1pm, a good 2 hours early, some were even done before 12. Even one of the union guys who’s forever telling us to start on time and take our breaks (which I do) was done and dusted at 1.30pm. If there’s no work fair enough but there were trays of mech lying around, full York’s of stuff waiting to be done on IPS.
These people have to realise all that will happen is hours will be taken out of the budget and/or they’ll be expected to do more work in their hours.
Big changes have to come from all of us.
Never use your personal vehicle to deliver post! Who is asking you to do this? Not the DOM I hope, it is serious. If mail gets stolen or you're involved in an accident you'll get hit with a £300 fine and sacked, please don't risk it. As for the person who keeps asking you, speak to your CWU rep and explain what is happening or ring them directly. If you get caught you'll get sacked not to mention you'll probably get your car sized if the police nick you on the road, look here: https://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communi ... 15&t=46941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What is awful is that the person who is asking knows better and doesn't care about you or your livelihood or safety. If it is your DOM or line manager then all I can say is I wouldn't be surprised, all they care about is clearing frames and getting tracked done, they don't care if you lose your licence or job. Disgusting...
I’m not using my car. I’ve been asked a couple of times if I’ll use my car to drive (without carrying any mail) to the start of a round but I have refused each time.
Even though management say you’re covered on RM insurance (not sure how true that is), I can see by agreeing to go straight from my house to the start point of a round I could be asked to drive up to 20 miles away, and all my indoor work will cease so I’d be doing myself out of approximately 8 hours overtime a week. And for what? Just so I can get done early on the occasional day.
So just to clarify, I do not and won’t ever use my car.
The day is gonna come when we’re all gonna have to testify.
CHUCKYPIG wrote:Yes Part Timers are shafted. I agree with a lot of what is said on here. Managers/Union/Full timers trying to bully us into coming in before our start times so they can get out early. Its a two tier workforce man. Agree that if the CEO wants to avert strike dangle a carrot in front of the part timers, divide and rule, its already a two tier system.
I now start at 12.30, the managers/others sometimes try to get me in early but I just stick to my guns and come in when I want. Yes I would like to have my normal hours but I've accepted I've got the mornings to myself and I prefer routine. So 12.30 it is every day. Actually I like having the van to myself, I can prep it my way, park up where I want, do the loops where I want and take my breaks where I want. The job is better now I can do it my way :-)
That’s a very good way of looking at it. Sometimes I think our biggest gripe (PT hours) is also our greatest weapon, because when we choose to just work our hours there’s nothing management can do and deep down they know it. Here there’s few arguments with management about cutting off, and if you’re on the 12.30/1 start there’s only so much you can do in your 5 hours.
Just to follow my earlier post about some of us PT staff shafting ourselves, a lot of us were the first to put our hand up and agree to use our cars. While it meant those volunteers can still start on a morning instead of 1pm, all indoor work is removed because they are simply told to go straight from home to the start of their delivery. Sure, now and again they might finish early but that’s all the OT wiped out; how do you book OT if you’re never going back to the depot plus do you really want to be doing more than 5 hours outdoor delivery. Also they are now working for free by driving in their own time to the start of the round, some of which are half an hour away from the depot. One guy here lives the other side of the county, so now has a 1 hour / 50 mile trip to the start point. Lastly not sure how successful they are getting paid mileage. It’s like a Venus flytrap, sometimes we all have to look at the bigger picture.
A chap in our office drove straight from home to start delivery each day - saving himself about 1hr's worth of 'work' per day as there is no indoor work/drive out to duty/return to office (he passes duty on way to office).
He's now complaining he's not getting any overtime - he genuinely thinks he is being screwed over yet he is more than happy to take the 'undertime'.
Sometimes we struggle to see ahead. For me it was clear if I agreed to use my car (I’ve been asked twice) I’d lose the 7/8 hours OT I do a week which is mostly indoor OT.
Same with yesterday, I worked my full hours. A quick glance at the signing in sheet shows most were done by 1pm, a good 2 hours early, some were even done before 12. Even one of the union guys who’s forever telling us to start on time and take our breaks (which I do) was done and dusted at 1.30pm. If there’s no work fair enough but there were trays of mech lying around, full York’s of stuff waiting to be done on IPS.
These people have to realise all that will happen is hours will be taken out of the budget and/or they’ll be expected to do more work in their hours.
Big changes have to come from all of us.
Never use your personal vehicle to deliver post! Who is asking you to do this? Not the DOM I hope, it is serious. If mail gets stolen or you're involved in an accident you'll get hit with a £300 fine and sacked, please don't risk it. As for the person who keeps asking you, speak to your CWU rep and explain what is happening or ring them directly. If you get caught you'll get sacked not to mention you'll probably get your car sized if the police nick you on the road, look here: https://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communi ... 15&t=46941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What is awful is that the person who is asking knows better and doesn't care about you or your livelihood or safety. If it is your DOM or line manager then all I can say is I wouldn't be surprised, all they care about is clearing frames and getting tracked done, they don't care if you lose your licence or job. Disgusting...
I’m not using my car. I’ve been asked a couple of times if I’ll use my car to drive (without carrying any mail) to the start of a round but I have refused each time.
Even though management say you’re covered on RM insurance (not sure how true that is), I can see by agreeing to go straight from my house to the start point of a round I could be asked to drive up to 20 miles away, and all my indoor work will cease so I’d be doing myself out of approximately 8 hours overtime a week. And for what? Just so I can get done early on the occasional day.
So just to clarify, I do not and won’t ever use my car.
Oh right, I see now. I agree you shouldn't drive to the start of your duty, not only becasue of the O/T but becasue lets say you are asked to cover a shift at another office, you are supposed to drive to your local office and take a van from there to the office that needs you, not drive there yourself using your own car. I would say whenever driving is needed within RM only use their vehicles, save yourself some petrol money
It seams to some on here the bitterest pill is hard to swallow in RM only want to pay part time wage until they need you so don't blame the full time staff blame the lying bastard who said you could be full time!
