The actuals

number one · Post by **number one** » 10 Oct 2018, 18:05

Woody Guthrie wrote:
At the end of the day, we are paid by hour not by job/task or duty.
That probably sums it up better than anything.
It's just a job , turn up on time, go home on time and do the best you can in between. If your best is better than the next guy so what, there are no special prizes given out at the end of the day for bestest postie. If people can only validate their existance by how fast they can get around a delivery that's pretty sad and I pity their empty lives.

Hahahaha.... you’re just so wrong it’s laughable. People work quick so they CAN get home and enjoy their lives instead of being in work. The sad ones are the ones who drag their feet till 17:00 because they have no life outside of work. Unfortunately some people are just so blinkered and stuck in their ways.

Post by **rambo1** » 10 Oct 2018, 18:12

clashcityrocker wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:......but you have to wonder why people can't sort this out themselves.
I think it largely because there are an abnormal number of people who work in RM who have absolutely no concept of team working and seem to live in the belief that at no point in their life will they require the help of a colleague.
Instead they blunder on like immature bellends spending a lot of their working life doing secret little deals with their favourite work colleague - the DOM.
Personally I think we should look after each other. From each according to their means and all that.

How can both return to van same time? Say one has 3 parcels they have to try next door for and the other gets rid straight away. That's why the business went tits up when we moved away from bikes and dedicated packet duties. We would be much stronger financially if we still worked like that. Of course though, what do we know.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 10 Oct 2018, 18:26

How can both return to van same time? Say one has 3 parcels they have to try next door for and the other gets rid straight away.

I doubt the idea is to take one day's actuals and change the duty based on that.
I think they're more interested in regular and obvious disparities between loops.
Having said that it looks like hard work for management so it's not likely to be done if there's a Facebook profile to update.

One of the problems I hear they're running into is that for GDPR reasons you can't have both posties in the room at the same time unless they agree to sharing their data.

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 10 Oct 2018, 19:07

We’re all saying it doesn’t matter if you just work your time, myself included, and it’s true, but..

Numberone you are saying what many people at my DO are saying, and it’s not just the younger lot, we got fast oldies saying the exact same thing; that being “why am I being “penalised” for someone else dicking around” (yes I understand the rebuttal here); or “you’re removing the incentive to work hard”.

And to be fair, there is a point in this; if you think not, then tell me this is false:

PDA actuals come in proper. Workload measured on time and balanced across posties. Posties now always work their time. Great. Only OT booked is where all duty hours filled with work. Posties learn they will always be given more work. Posties learn that they can, if they wish, go as slow as they like because it is going to be very hard to actually “do” them for it provided they are actually moving.

We literally saying that will all be sorted by DOMs and not a problem?

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 10 Oct 2018, 19:21

LaggyBand wrote: Posties learn that they can, if they wish, go as slow as they like because it is going to be very hard to actually “do” them for it provided they are actually moving.

On this forum there are reports of 3 people being suspended after using the overrunning delivery procedure.
It would suggest you can't go as slow as you wish.

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 10 Oct 2018, 19:22

clashcityrocker wrote:
LaggyBand wrote: Posties learn that they can, if they wish, go as slow as they like because it is going to be very hard to actually “do” them for it provided they are actually moving.

On this forum there are reports of 3 people being suspended after using the overrunning delivery procedure.
It would suggest you can't go as slow as you wish.

But were they caught with their feet up? Big difference to what I’m talking about.

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 10 Oct 2018, 19:25

LaggyBand wrote:
But were they caught with their feet up?

I don't know the details but the posts don't suggest they were doing anything like that.

number one · Post by **number one** » 10 Oct 2018, 19:28

Being suspended and being sacked are huge differences. What was the outcome?

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 10 Oct 2018, 19:34

clashcityrocker wrote:
LaggyBand wrote:
But were they caught with their feet up?
I don't know the details but the posts don't suggest they were doing anything like that.

Being suspended for using the overrunning procedure could be all sorts of things.

Maybe they got suspended but it got dropped because there are no standards to rely on;

Maybe management were saying they did not follow the procedure correctly;

Maybe they cut off but we’re seen in the van pure chillin’ and this was shown not to have been counted by them as part of their break (happened to couple of guys near our DO)

So I’m still asking, if everyone can deliver as slow as they like:

a) is it reasonable to assume that will catch on if everyone is having all their time filled with work, whether “their” round or someone else’s; and

b) do RM consider that a problem that will be solved quickly

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 10 Oct 2018, 20:11

I don't know any postie who really wants to be out on delivery any longer than they had to and face the stress of constant confrontation with management and be able to convince their partner to do the same.

We've already been in a similar position years ago, when there were two deliveries when you finished the first delivery you came back to the office to do "extra work" (second delivery or sorting ASAP) until your finish time. You could if you really wanted to hang out the first delivery so that you didn't have to do anything but nobody did to any great extent because the natural instinct for the vast majority of people is just to get the job done.

I think in a lot of cases this deliberately slow postie is an imaginary foe used as a kind of justification for a certain kind of behaviour, I know people who are deliberately methodical when it comes to following the rules but that's not slow, I know people who are slow because they are older, have medical conditions or in some cases are just not very well suited to the job but that's not deliberate. I don't know anyone who is deliberately slow. Maybe I just mix with a better class of people.

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 10 Oct 2018, 20:28

clashcityrocker wrote:Managers are allowed to deliver.
If there is no other option.

There is the other option though clash. Its the option of leaving loops of mail and packets exactly where it is in the frame for the day after, and its been happening on a regular basis due to lapsing and sick absence.

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 10 Oct 2018, 20:31

Woody Guthrie wrote:I don't know any postie who really wants to be out on delivery any longer than they had to and face the stress of constant confrontation with management and be able to convince their partner to do the same.

We've already been in a similar position years ago, when there were two deliveries when you finished the first delivery you came back to the office to do "extra work" (second delivery or sorting ASAP) until your finish time. You could if you really wanted to hang out the first delivery so that you didn't have to do anything but nobody did to any great extent because the natural instinct for the vast majority of people is just to get the job done.

I think in a lot of cases this deliberately slow postie is an imaginary foe used as a kind of justification for a certain kind of behaviour, I know people who are deliberately methodical when it comes to following the rules but that's not slow, I know people who are slow because they are older, have medical conditions or in some cases are just not very well suited to the job but that's not deliberate. I don't know anyone who is deliberately slow. Maybe I just mix with a better class of people.

Ok I’m enjoying the conversion but three points in response:

1) in the good old days you refer to, culture was way better. Mood in general is different now. There’s a lot more “I’m rushing for me, sod RM” knocking about. Managers and posties in general don’t get on like they used to;

2) it’s not so much about being deliberately slow, it’s a case of why go home more tired than you have to; I’m not purporting to know the truth but I wonder, how much in deliveries get done because of the rush mentality?

3) Who’s going to be striding long with the thought of “getting the job done” as you say, because it isn’t to be like that anymore, is it? The job isn’t done even when it’s done. The job is done when the time is done. There is no get the job done.

Maybe you work in an unusual office, mine isn’t particularly contentious either, but it’s going to come down to humans preferring not to be tired, simple as that.

And that’s a problem for RM (defo not posties) if:

1. There are no speed of delivery requirements that can actually be used to sack someone; and

2. Currently in general people rush to complete.

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 10 Oct 2018, 20:44

Woody, in addition to my above post, when you say you don’t know any postie who wants to be out longer than they have to, remember under the new system then that isn’t a thing anymore.

Posties will never have to be out longer than they have to; it isn’t affected by heir delivery rate. They either complete their delivery and then continue to work, or they do not complete their delivery but need not worry about the remaining workload as it will of course be allocated to someone else.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 10 Oct 2018, 21:01

As I've said before it's unlikely work will be transferred from one delivery to another except in extreme cases. It's much more likely that indoor work will be redistributed to allow longer deliveries to leave the office earlier with the shorter deliveries picking up the extra indoor workload.

If you're only taking 3 hours to complete your delivery you don't need to leave the office until 3hrs + traveling time before your finish time. That could mean something like your delivery doesn't get prepped until after the IPS is complete or until other duties are fully prepped. There are a few ways to make people work their hours without moving deliveries around.

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 10 Oct 2018, 21:04

Woody Guthrie wrote:As I've said before it's unlikely work will be transferred from one delivery to another except in extreme cases. It's much more likely that indoor work will be redistributed to allow longer deliveries to leave the office earlier with the shorter deliveries picking up the extra indoor workload.

If you're only taking 3 hours to complete your delivery you don't need to leave the office until 3hrs + traveling time before your finish time. That could mean something like your delivery doesn't get prepped until after the IPS is complete or until other duties are fully prepped. There are a few ways to make people work their hours without moving deliveries around.

Oh. I thought this thread was discussing PDA actuals being used to allocate manpower to workload whether outdoor or not.

Where’d you hear it doesn’t apply to outdoor? Kinda saves us all and is really important