Overtime

[mickeymacca]

Guys in our office do cut offs every day on the same round, they get an hour to and hour and a half depending on how heavy, they're always finished (except on really heavy days) bang on their finish time for their duty which is the same time as the guys who they are doing the cut off for!! So they are working the same hours but getting 1-1 and a half more pay per day (up to 7.5 hours a week) for doing the same job/hours, as it happens these old boys are definitely not runners. They just have incredibly unbalanced rounds, which is why they need to do docket to pad out their duty time. I suspect this isn't an isolated example.

Sorry to refer back to PDA actuals, but if they are used to improve efficiency and cost saving, then posties claiming 'ghost docket' could be creating a bit of an issue for themselves.
If you're banging out some docket within your duty time, then its not rocket science to suggest you don't need to be getting paid an extra payment for that, it can just be added to your duty. If you suddenly slow down in reaction to this, given the information they have now being collating for a number of months, it could probably be argued that you can be disciplined for performance issues. I'm not sure how realistic that is, because as stated, there will always be a time when they need to get the mail delivered regardless. However the new CEO has just announced a a pretty pessimistic forecast, and I think its realistic to expect some sort of reaction that is going to attempt to curtail these practices.

[mickeymacca]

Clashcityrocker you keep swerving the question so I will ask again.

If YOU finish YOUR duty early are YOU guilty of fraud. Using your logic you would be?

Does anyone finish their duty early now!!

I think you could argue that agreeing to do docket, that both you and the manager knows is an inflated time for the given work, is premeditated. Whereas finishing early on your regular duty, is (or was) part of the unforeseen fluctuations that make up the fabric of the job. You should probably find your manager for extra tasks to take you up to your finish time. If you are regularly finishing early, your duty is not big enough.

That said I've done loads of ghost docket in my time, so I'm a complete hypocrite.....

[LaggyBand]

The bottom line is, are RM willing to swallow the expense of getting rid of ghost docket for good?

Doubt it.

People have been carving up duty hours to cover a walk for the twenty years I’ve been about, and still do, only difference is instead of sharing the 8 hours out, they tend to share out 6, holding back 2 as absorbed indoor.

Ghost is everywhere, you’ve either got to take out a few really unlucky individuals to send a message, or paralyse the whole system.

Bet neither happens.

Edit: typo

[leolion855]

The bottom line is, are RM willing to swallow the expense of getting rid of ghost docket for good?

Doubt it.

People have been carving up duty hours to cover a walk for the twenty years I’ve been about, and still do, only difference is instead of sharing the 8 hours out, they tend to share out 6, holding back 2 as absorbed indoor.

Ghost is everywhere, you’ve either got to take out a few really unlucky individuals to send a message, or paralyse the whole system.

Bet neither happens.

Edit: typo

you say that but our office has stopped people taking there overtime out with them on there round and are forcing people to come back for it, hence no body is now taking overtime at all and leaving the managers with 6 or 7 rounds to get rid of.

[j1mmyc]

you say that but our office has stopped people taking there overtime out with them on there round and are forcing people to come back for it, hence no body is now taking overtime at all and leaving the managers with 6 or 7 rounds to get rid of.[/quote]

This happened at our office for 1 day and guess what back to normal after that day if people think ghost overtime will ever be stopped then there silly, Royal Mail runs on overtime and they know part timers need the overtime to make there hours up

I believe the pda actuals were only brought in to stop people booking Extended delivery as we have had a few people called into the office and questioned about booking excess and told there not being paid for it but then nothing is said about people doing overtime in duty time so work that out

[LaggyBand]

The bottom line is, are RM willing to swallow the expense of getting rid of ghost docket for good?

Doubt it.

People have been carving up duty hours to cover a walk for the twenty years I’ve been about, and still do, only difference is instead of sharing the 8 hours out, they tend to share out 6, holding back 2 as absorbed indoor.

Ghost is everywhere, you’ve either got to take out a few really unlucky individuals to send a message, or paralyse the whole system.

Bet neither happens.

Edit: typo

you say that but our office has stopped people taking there overtime out with them on there round and are forcing people to come back for it, hence no body is now taking overtime at all and leaving the managers with 6 or 7 rounds to get rid of.

Interesting situation; how did they get rid of?

[LaggyBand]

you say that but our office has stopped people taking there overtime out with them on there round and are forcing people to come back for it, hence no body is now taking overtime at all and leaving the managers with 6 or 7 rounds to get rid of.

This happened at our office for 1 day and guess what back to normal after that day if people think ghost overtime will ever be stopped then there silly, Royal Mail runs on overtime and they know part timers need the overtime to make there hours up

I believe the pda actuals were only brought in to stop people booking Extended delivery as we have had a few people called into the office and questioned about booking excess and told there not being paid for it but then nothing is said about people doing overtime in duty time so work that out[/quote]

I think that is a little added touch yes, and also so that DSMs can give DOMs data driven targets using PDA actuals, which may mostly lead nowhere, with DOMs saying something along the lines of “if my runners don’t run and my docket fiends don’t fiend then we’re all screwed”

[Postie45]

you say that but our office has stopped people taking there overtime out with them on there round and are forcing people to come back for it, hence no body is now taking overtime at all and leaving the managers with 6 or 7 rounds to get rid of.

This happened at our office for 1 day and guess what back to normal after that day if people think ghost overtime will ever be stopped then there silly, Royal Mail runs on overtime

RM has ran on OT in the past, however, i think more and more offices are becoming wise to this and not being held to ransom, expect more part timers who will be more than willing to work an hour paid for an hour worked.

[j1mmyc]

you say that but our office has stopped people taking there overtime out with them on there round and are forcing people to come back for it, hence no body is now taking overtime at all and leaving the managers with 6 or 7 rounds to get rid of.

This happened at our office for 1 day and guess what back to normal after that day if people think ghost overtime will ever be stopped then there silly, Royal Mail runs on overtime

RM has ran on OT in the past, however, i think more and more offices are becoming wise to this and not being held to ransom, expect more part timers who will be more than willing to work an hour paid for an hour worked.

Maybe but when you have 3-4 walks a day to cover and only few new starters every 6 months then the DOM’S have little chance of changing something that has been going on for the past 20+ years

[j1mmyc]

you say that but our office has stopped people taking there overtime out with them on there round and are forcing people to come back for it, hence no body is now taking overtime at all and leaving the managers with 6 or 7 rounds to get rid of.

This happened at our office for 1 day and guess what back to normal after that day if people think ghost overtime will ever be stopped then there silly, Royal Mail runs on overtime and they know part timers need the overtime to make there hours up

I believe the pda actuals were only brought in to stop people booking Extended delivery as we have had a few people called into the office and questioned about booking excess and told there not being paid for it but then nothing is said about people doing overtime in duty time so work that out

I think that is a little added touch yes, and also so that DSMs can give DOMs data driven targets using PDA actuals, which may mostly lead nowhere, with DOMs saying something along the lines of “if my runners don’t run and my docket fiends don’t fiend then we’re all screwed”[/quote]

Exactly also Royal Mail have had these pda actuals for the last 12 months plus I believe so if walks are still being finished an hour+ Early everyday why hasn’t anything happened yet, Royal Mail have a difficult situation because they make the walks bigger then people slow down and get cut offs or leave the boat kind of sailing as it is so to speak

[Postie45]

RM has ran on OT in the past, however, i think more and more offices are becoming wise to this and not being held to ransom, expect more part timers who will be more than willing to work an hour paid for an hour worked.

Maybe but when you have 3-4 walks a day to cover and only few new starters every 6 months then the DOM’S have little chance of changing something that has been going on for the past 20+ years

its something that has happened in our office, PTs on short hours get called when theres resource issues and asked to come in, which a lot of course are more than willing when theyre only on 25 hours or so.

[LaggyBand]

Ghost docket is a natural consequence of the uso in my opinion; the brutal truth is you either accept that mail fails and never pay hours not worked (which would probably cost more);

Or you get the job done at the cheapest price.

I’d argue the latter would better play out with a little cleverness knocking about amongst management, rather than psychometrically targeting brute force types to run the floor.

[Seymour Buts]

Ghost docket is a natural consequence of the uso in my opinion; the brutal truth is you either accept that mail fails and never pay hours not worked (which would probably cost more);

Or you get the job done at the cheapest price.

I’d argue the latter would better play out with a little cleverness knocking about amongst management, rather than psychometrically targeting brute force types to run the floor.

Correct. Nobody is going to do extra if there's no incentive to do so.

[Navalron]

I find it really sad that you went to managers about someone else's hours. As long as you get your hours that you worked/ agreed then that's it. If I had been the gaffer I would have told you to eff off. No wonder the job is f****d. Why don't YOU negotiate hours for docket without grassing.

Firstly we expect fairness in the workplace. We don't expect the bosses' favourites to be given more money for doing the same work.
Sometimes you have to shine a light into the murky corners of RM and let everyone see the s**t that is lurking there.
Sometimes you have to have the conkers to speak truth to those in power.
Favouritism isn't acceptable.

Why should any of us have to negotiate our own overtime rates? What next - negotiating our own attendance procedure or our own conduct code?
Isn't that what we pay our union fees for?
We may not like the overtime rates that our union has negotiated on our behalf but that isn't a reason to go in and undermine them.

No wonder the job is f****d with colleagues who are happy to take it up the arse without complaining.

I'm not saying anything about complaining. I'm talking about going to a gaffer and talking to him/her about ANOTHER postie. It's got absolutely nothing to do with him what anybody else is working.