Strikes are coming

Post by **Lincox** » 16 Jan 2017, 20:20

Flycatcher, those illustrations are based on defined contribution schemes such as Royal Mail now offer to new members of staff. The final result of this type of pension bares no relationship to your final earnings or career average earnings. They are based on how well the fund managers invest the premiums that you and the employer pays in and therefore the final outcome can be better than a salary based scheme if the investment does particularly well, but on the other hand and what is more common is that the likelihood is there will be periods of poor investment return and that will affect the outcome. In other words there are no guaranteed pension returns on the new offering, whereas the old defined benefit scheme offered a guaranteed pension based on your earnings and the number of years that you work for the company.

Supermac0151 · Post by **Supermac0151** » 16 Jan 2017, 22:10

Why would they pay us £750 or a grand for that matter? im
Not clued up on this sorry

nickbsmooth · Post by **nickbsmooth** » 16 Jan 2017, 23:49

fishtank wrote:There is one major difference Acca, those who entered the business after 2010 (yes it was 2010 not 2008 that the DC scheme was introduced) knew when they took the job what the pension situation was so I would like to think they considered that when they decided to accept the job. Those who have joined after 2010 have not seen their pension deteriorate, in fact the union has already negotiated an increase in employee contributions to that scheme.

The only pension that has deteriorated from what was offered at employment start date is the DB scheme, the only pensioners who will be poorer than they thought they would when they started with royal mail are the future DB pensioners. While I understand your frustration at not getting what was on offer before you started I not only won't get what those who started before me got, I won't even get what I was "promised" when I started.

I left company on DB scheme in 08 rejoined 5months later still in 08,started paying contributions in 2009 ,I'm not in a DB scheme but some shitty Zurich plan where I have to invest everything in high risk with the hope it's worth it in 25yrs time

thegreatestfreddy · Post by **thegreatestfreddy** » 17 Jan 2017, 07:46

fly-catchers wrote:I have almost 28 years of Pension illustrations. It makes for fascinating reading as it goes from positive and forward thinking to things starting to go wrong! The earlier illustration even had a nice chart showing where all the investments were with and how well they were doing! And lots of smiling postmen and their families!

Unfortunately have binned all mine over the years... a nice bit of memorabilia I would say... would be interesting if you could put a few sample snaps on here to remind us all....

I must admit I don't really get this pension malarkey and how things can go so 'unpredictability wrong'.... am sure though that someone somewhere is creaming off in some way and we are going to be paying for it again and again if this capitalist greed does not stop... it is truly out of control !!

'Peaks and troughs' are purposefully being created in the economy so that those 'in the know' can profit from it.... if the economy was dead flat they would not be able to profiteer... it is a huge manipulation in my opinion!!

Post by **Lincox** » 17 Jan 2017, 11:00

I left company on DB scheme in 08 rejoined 5months later still in 08,started paying contributions in 2009 ,I'm not in a DB scheme but some shitty Zurich plan where I have to invest everything in high risk with the hope it's worth it in 25yrs time
nickbsmooth
Offline

You do not have to invest in high risk. The Zurich Plan allows you to invest in a range of different risks from a Cash Fund which has no risk but with a very low minimal return on your investment (This is so you can change to this when you are within a few years of retirement in order that the profits you have made can be protected) to funds that are medium risk and some higher risk ( You want your funds to have the opportunity for growth while you are young and then have the ability to reduce the risk as you get older)

This is the essence of all financial planning in order to maximise the returns for your future pension. However, the amount of risk you are prepared to take is up to you, and the funds within the Zurich Scheme are there for you to make your own choice and you can change the risk you take by going online into your own personal plan and making those changes. Good luck.

nickbsmooth · Post by **nickbsmooth** » 17 Jan 2017, 13:24

Lincox wrote:I left company on DB scheme in 08 rejoined 5months later still in 08,started paying contributions in 2009 ,I'm not in a DB scheme but some shitty Zurich plan where I have to invest everything in high risk with the hope it's worth it in 25yrs time
nickbsmooth
Offline

You do not have to invest in high risk. The Zurich Plan allows you to invest in a range of different risks from a Cash Fund which has no risk but with a very low minimal return on your investment (This is so you can change to this when you are within a few years of retirement in order that the profits you have made can be protected) to funds that are medium risk and some higher risk ( You want your funds to have the opportunity for growth while you are young and then have the ability to reduce the risk as you get older)

This is the essence of all financial planning in order to maximise the returns for your future pension. However, the amount of risk you are prepared to take is up to you, and the funds within the Zurich Scheme are there for you to make your own choice and you can change the risk you take by going online into your own personal plan and making those changes. Good luck.

This is what I'm saying I have to invest in High Risk with the hope it's worth something in the future.
Low risk equals a guaranteed pittance,so in order to stand a chance of having more than a pittance I have to go high risk.
If I was in a DB pension then I'd still be significantly better off than my high risk decision even if it comes good.
The hardest thing is staying fit enough to last to retirement in the first place.
The pension pot should grow in time as the staff start dropping like flies,not suggesting that the company is trying to kill us with work but you know.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 17 Jan 2017, 14:04

Supermac0151 wrote:Why would they pay us £750 or a grand for that matter? im
Not clued up on this sorry

If they close the DB scheme there will be around 200 million still in the pension pot so they have offered the equivalent of two years of accrual.

A lump sum is not significant compensation for a reduction in your yearly pension with some getting a 60% reduction in pension under the DC scheme as opppsed to what they would get under the current scheme.

But Royal Mail know some will grab the money and than moan when they live in proverty in retirement.

dundee · Post by **dundee** » 17 Jan 2017, 15:00

Just received my illustration,if I stay in service until I'm 65 I would receive £17,683 a year,new proposal I will get £8,838 oh and a one off payment of £750,Royal Mail are taking the piss.We better be out on strike for this,Shocked by these figures.

Post by **RobertT** » 17 Jan 2017, 15:27

Just to clear this up:

fishtank wrote:There is one major difference Acca, those who entered the business after 2010 (yes it was 2010 not 2008 that the DC scheme was introduced) knew when they took the job what the pension situation was so I would like to think they considered that when they decided to accept the job. Those who have joined after 2010 have not seen their pension deteriorate, in fact the union has already negotiated an increase in employee contributions to that scheme.

The DB scheme closed in 2008 with existing employees having their pensions changed from then onwards from final salary to average salary(CARE/CSDB), all new entrants were then enrolled into the DC scheme.

The first two years after that change from 2008-2010, were credited as NRA60 pension with everything from 2010 onwards being NRA65.

Krafty · Post by **Krafty** » 17 Jan 2017, 15:38

The amount of work we are now doing, we deserve to have a good retirement.

We will be getting totally screwed if this new pensions agreement happens.

Post by **Lincox** » 17 Jan 2017, 16:01

Yes, when you consider that companies only offer a pension scheme because it is cheaper than increasing the salary (ie no employer national insurance to pay) then you begin to see that the pension benefits are in fact a deferment of salary. So by degrading your pension benefits, the company are in fact reducing your salary to increase the profits that the company make, which are then passed on to shareholders and the board executives salaries. It is theft on a grand scale and whatever your current situation is within Royal Mail, caving in to this and not being prepared to fight for your future sends a loud message to Royal Mail that they can carry on regardless, reducing pay, reducing benefits, making you work more for less.

Post by **ysbrydtawel** » 17 Jan 2017, 19:42

They've done it quite cleverly, really:

A large part of the workforce joined since 2008 (me included), so it doesn't matter to us either way.

A large part of the workforce are nearing retirement age so probably aren't too worried about the format of the last few years' worth of pension contributions.

Of the remaining lot in the middle, how many are union members / would be prepared to strike?

Of course, the whole point of the Union is that all members should take part in any industrial action. I joined long after 2008 but I would strike to support the people who were here before, and similarly I would expect other union members to strike over issues that may not be directly relevant to them.

Chelseablue · Post by **Chelseablue** » 18 Jan 2017, 15:21

So what we gonna do about it?

cpsteve · Post by **cpsteve** » 22 Jan 2017, 11:44

When or if we vote for strike action its important we get a big yes vote or the company will see this as weakness. I do not understand why i have been given a state pension estimate at 60yrs/65yrs when i can not get it until i am 67yrs this should not be any way included in our proposed pension changes it has nothing to do with the R/M. My pension est goes from 8.500 to 6.000 losing me 2.500 every year as well as the extra i will have to pay in of course thats offset by a £750 one off payment.

Stunl3y · Post by **Stunl3y** » 22 Jan 2017, 11:50

dundee wrote:Just received my illustration,if I stay in service until I'm 65 I would receive £17,683 a year,new proposal I will get £8,838 oh and a one off payment of £750,Royal Mail are taking the piss.We better be out on strike for this,Shocked by these figures.

And dont forget on top of that they want you to pay MORE for less pension