Divsional Reps meeting with Mark Higson

[woofwoof]

I have to say , why moan if your not willing to do anything about it ! No one strikes for CWU HQs, you decide to strike by voting on the issus in an indivdual member ballot. You also then decide if you strike.

Now if you think the points I listed are not worth your support then fine that's is your right but don't then moan when they become a reality in your office.

Personally I along with other reps will do our upmost to stop some of these attacks in the area I cover.

The National union has also started applying the pressure , it needs to more in my opinion and take an harder line and f Royal Mail continues to break the national agreement them then the union should advise all units to withdrew from revison talks.

If you believe the union is all pally with the business then that is your opinion. However when the union comes out and makes a stand and there has been a line in the sand drawn then if you as a member then don't support the union then frankly you will be the ones who suffer cause Royal Mail will bring it into your office cause they will know that the membership are not going to resist and will not support the CWU. Remember the CWU is not 150 the Broadway it is every unit in the UK .

It's your choice , but remember no one else will come to your rescue.

[dvbuk55]

I'm critical of the union and I believe justifiably so BUT if the union had a legitimate plan of action to unify the membership and put forward realistic aims for the membership to identify with then I believe that the membership would support them - I know I would BUT the leadership would need to be up for it and the one thing I would need is the assurance that any action would only be rescinded with the members consent and the discussions were open to the members and not behind closed doors.

[Martin Walsh]

look let's get a few things clear every divison in the UK reported problems to Mark Higson not just London. So for ease of doubts that included Sctoland and Northern Ireland , The North East , The North West North Wales, Midlands , South Central , Anglia , London , South East and South West and South Wales.

Now Fish No Divisonal rep has the authority to call a ballot only Branch's so it is an easy option to blame the Scottish Divisonal Reps but your Branch could have called for a ballot of the issue was right.

At no stage have I said the union is balloting , in fact to the contrary I don't think Royal Mail or the CWU want to go down that route for different reasons. Royal Mail's reason is obvious they want to increase the rating of Royal Mail in order to sell it at the highest price and industrial action is the last thing that helps them. The Unions is our fight will be to get Royal Mail to abide by the terms of our agreement hardly something which is likely to attract the membership in supporting a row.

Instead the other tactic which can be used to Royal Mail are under pressure to strip out savings in delivery offices and if we do not agree revisons then the pressure switches back on them.

Yes there is a risk of executive action but they cannot make the revisons which have been agreed with offices work so any revisons which are imposed by executive action would be disasters.

[Martin Walsh]

You're living in the clouds Dingo. London has now had revisions in nearly half its offices as you point out and despite not knowing their success or failure due to the Olympics Royal Mail are returning for more savings, whilst you say the are renaging on the National Agreements and joint statements. Therefore why would an office that went through all the pain and tribulations of implementing them now jeopardise what they have achieved by supporting the other half who haven't implemented anything and withdraw all cooperation. We supported Union through thick and thin in recent years even saving its very existence if we were to believe what was being touted and for that we lost our Mail Centre had our members shafted not supported and if it were not for local reps blocking Roal Mail's 100BSI utopia delivery offices failing all over the place as is proven by the debacle being played out as we speak in the new area delivery managers original area. I'm sure you message was take a chance don't get too technical and had we done that we would be in s**t street so we will not stand on the streets for another 19 weeks on and off just to make you look good on your white charger once again

Let's be clear some of the revisons have been in for a number of months well before the Olympcis. Yes the majority only were agreed prior to the Olympcis not because we were holding a line on 100BSI cause that was a line we all agreed we would not agree but because we agreed at Divisonal level the starts times for all the delivery offices in East London which remained at 0600 Wednesday to Friday , moved to 06:15 on Monday and Tuesday and kept early starts on a Saturday for those offices who had an either a 5:15 or 5:30 start on Saturdays.

East London did not close as a result of our the Union in London or National it closes because Royal Mail believed they could not make changes in East London. No one liked that and the honest postion is no one in Royal Mail management has at any stage said they were going to keep East London open.

Faced with that conclusion we have now got a resolution within processing where Indivduals either go to Romford or the Mount and can stay on nights or go on a Monday to Friday job against international workload. On professional drivers we now have an E1 hub with 17 professional drivers and 1 admin and Romford will have 63 duties including bumps.

I understand people are angry but it was not the union who shut East London it was a Managment decision which they have never said they were going to change.

[celerycelery]

Our office is that demoralised they would walk out tomorrow if given the option. Local rep disagreed at every phase but was over ruled time and time again by reps higher up. Local Reps concerns have now become reality. Walks taking at least 6 hours despite georoute saying 4 hours 30 mins, highest level of sick for years, bullying on daily basis for people finishing on time, full walks not even going out some days, packets left for anywhere up to 5 days in office, staff using bags over shoulders, planners gone and the list goes on. Staff who have been there for over 30 years are cutting off for the first time ever. Would guess its costing a fortune at just this one office with all the overtime instead of making any savings at all. How we will cope come autumn and then xmas i dont know.

[Lincox]

Dingo, what was Mark Higsons response to the questions and problems raised. Did he say he was going to wrap knuckles and get these sorted, or did he have no answer?

[Martin Walsh]

Dingo, what was Mark Higsons response to the questions and problems raised. Did he say he was going to wrap knuckles and get these sorted, or did he have no answer?

Lincox he was shocked , I don't think he often gets challenged in that way and says he would report back to the regional management team and then meet with Dave , Bob , Ray and Terry.

[fishtank]

Now Fish No Divisonal rep has the authority to call a ballot only Branch's so it is an easy option to blame the Scottish Divisonal Reps but your Branch could have called for a ballot of the issue was right..

I didn't say i blamed the Scottish Divisional Reps,i'm open minded as to whether the blame lies with them for not promoting the problems in Scotland with enough resolve before the infection spread to other areas or whether the blames lies with others for refusing to listen.
Should the Scottish Divisional Reps have been pushing for a withdrawal from revision activity 12 months ago?
Maybe they did,maybe as i said no-one was prepared to listen.

As for the Branch calling a ballot,this doesn't just affect one unit or one Branch,it affects the entire Division and as you were quick to point out yourself....it's not a route the union is keen to take for exactly the reasons you stated.
What applies in London also applies in Scotland.

So the questions are...how do you ensure support for a policy of non co-operation in revision activity amongst offices that have already gone through the process?
If you make progress can that be applied retrospectively or should offices that have been turned over just be written off as weak and simply have to live with what some would call their own mistakes?
Can the union take that risk bearing in mind they may need the support of these offices if the whole thing turns into a real row involving EA and IA?
They are only questions dingo,those that know me personally know that my loyalty to the union is never in doubt but that loyalty is to the union as a whole and no particular faction,group or interest should put that whole at risk in the short or long term.

[hantsman]

Dingo, what was Mark Higsons response to the questions and problems raised. Did he say he was going to wrap knuckles and get these sorted, or did he have no answer?

Lincox he was shocked , I don't think he often gets challenged in that way and says he would report back to the regional management team and then meet with Dave , Bob , Ray and Terry.

Re my bold, I Can't believe Higson did not know this was going on, and if he didn't then he surely does not have his finger on the pulse.

[POSTMAN]

Yup,i can see why Higson was shocked,must be a short memory thing,and wasn't there another tea and biscuits meeting with the top peeps as well as the one below...
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 15&t=40754" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let's hope Higson was taking notes this time.

[thebiggestman]

It was the union that shut East London as they did Oxford and Liverpool etc this is because the last time the union needed help to save it's very existence these places pulled out all the stops and went on strike above and beyond and how were they repaid with an agreement with Mail Centre closure at it's core. And the promises of the hierarchy were not forthcoming and without a whimper they were allowed to shut. Its alright sprouting job numbers and duties to go to but it's the job security and the stronghold of a good place of to work you have allowed to be destroyed and now they've finished off the Mail Centres they're coming back for deliveries and you can't see the wood for your own kudos so when you've finished patting yourself on the back there's a job to be done or shall all the delivery members that supported this union wholeheartedly suffer the same fate?

[mondeoman1]

do we have a copy of fri ltb just in case our rep doesn,t recieve it
so i can show troops at wtl and laughing session tmrw

Fri's LTB.

[dvbuk55]

Re: LTB 995/11 CWU ADDRESS RMG TOP 900 MANAGERS FORUM

by dingo » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:12,pm

It does make you laugh , everyone complains of failing delivery revisons and nothing being done and that Royal Mail seems oblivious to this. Yet when Dave Ward attends to tell all the senior managers that their delivery revisons are not working and they are pushing delivery staff to far and they have to stop etc that people then moan that the CWU is doing for that.

In fact Mark Higson at the same event for the first time according to some of the managers I met yesterday conceded for the first time to such an event that some delivery revisons are not going well and will not save the money they thought.

Now if the union attends such an event makes that point , dont you think that is what it should do ?
dingo
Of course they should dingo - but do they need to do so repeatedly - Dave Ward pointed out last November that everything in the garden wasn't rosey and yet Mark Higson appeared shocked to hear the same thing 9 months later from Div Reps - he must deserve an oscar - the two faced get.

[dvbuk55]

Well that LTB just about sums up the total naivete of the leadership and negotiators in believing that Royal Mail had any intention of sticking to an agreement and actually including the CWU in any meaningful planning. All they get is a shout on the Joint Statements - I mean how naive can you get - it's like being a milk monitor at school. Some people do need to grow a pair and show some bottle in dealing with RM. The only snag is - how do they get the membership to actually go along with any action they decide to take?

[Dee Plish]

Yup,i can see why Higson was shocked,must be a short memory thing,and wasn't there another tea and biscuits meeting with the top peeps as well as the one below...
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 15&t=40754" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let's hope Higson was taking notes this time.

Higson "shocked" by all this? Nah. Completely unbelievable. Nothing but an act IMHO.