Van Share!.

[Martin Walsh]

Pat no I meant that too many of our members are still driving their own cars and chasing time.

If there is still bullying happening by management then that needs to stop.

However I can only talk for the two regions I cover and say that management are certiainly abiding by the agreement thus far. We had the Local revision workshop today in North West London and joint involvement and working togather was the two key objectives.

Given the fact that North West London had 20 days of strike action last year , trust is a differcult issue to gain , but the 6 phase revison process gives the union and the member the full opportunity to ensure that they have all the information , ensure that the correct information is imputed and that the duty set which comes out is acceptable.

If this is not happening in your office can I suggust you flag it up to your Branch and your Division. The agreement insists that the revision is jointly worked up with joint objectives and that it is not acceptable for a manager to just introduce what they want.

Look this agreement allows for the most involvement ever by union officials and the office , everything from the intial survey , to A Plus , sid and sarah , geo route , indoor workload tool , delivery capicity model , the model week , how the walk is done , how the duty is done, how the loops are done and how CDVs are deployed.

There is no point is slaging the agreement off if your not make sure that your manager is actually adhering to the agreement.

Stop the moaning and get in touch with your Branch and get them to act.

[pickaname]

So what if there arent enough volunteer drivers in an office?

What if the number of volunteers falls way short of the number needed. What then?

Can you give us a straight answer please Dingo?

[Martin Walsh]

the straight answer is that they will deploy delivery methods including CDVs and they will stop the use of private cars. This is Royal Mail"s strategy and if an office tries to fight this as a collective body then fishtank is right they will call foul.

Royal Mail will not leave the CDVs in some car park gathering dust just becaue some postal workers want to continue to use their cars. The support vechiles carrying second pouches will be the first to go and they will provide som drivers for the CDVs.

I do believe whilst there is some oppostion , that most delivery methods offices now have the right volunters.

Not voluntering for door to door will not have any effect on not working longer saturdays when you have your sequencing revision.

[gb93]

So what if there arent enough volunteer drivers in an office?

What if the number of volunteers falls way short of the number needed. What then?

Can you give us a straight answer please Dingo?

Out of interest what do you think should happen if this happened in your office.
Just say you are the unit rep what would you do,you know local agreements and all that.
Here's you chance to enlighten us all to ways of avoiding CDVs

[pickaname]

So what if there arent enough volunteer drivers in an office?

What if the number of volunteers falls way short of the number needed. What then?

Can you give us a straight answer please Dingo?

Out of interest what do you think should happen if this happened in your office.
Just say you are the unit rep what would you do,you know local agreements and all that.
Here's you chance to enlighten us all to ways of avoiding CDVs

Easy to avoid the issue by asking another question isnt it?

Can anyone answer?

[gb93]

So what if there arent enough volunteer drivers in an office?

What if the number of volunteers falls way short of the number needed. What then?

Can you give us a straight answer please Dingo?

Out of interest what do you think should happen if this happened in your office.
Just say you are the unit rep what would you do,you know local agreements and all that.
Here's you chance to enlighten us all to ways of avoiding CDVs

Easy to avoid the issue by asking another question isnt it?

Can anyone answer?

It is also very easy to critise and moan from the sidelines
It's a bit tougher to get involved and be responsible for your actions
Not just you Pickname but I have to agree with Night Tonic this site is becoming Royalwhinge.
Yes we all have a right to moan now and again but everthing doesn't have to be negative.

[axeman]

but of Dingo' you forget if you take the van home then your liable to pay tax on it and it's not a cheap option unless you know royal fail is prepared to increase you pay to offset the cost ? as for asking you to drive that is entirely up to each and every individual who has a licence you do not repeat do not have to drive for royal fail unless your spineless union has got into bed with royal fail and are willing to do things there way. You as a union man should hold up any 'rights' individuals might have not to drive for royal fail , i really can't belive you when you say that the union 'advised' them to drive talk about a union with no balls

[POSTMAN]

There will be a mixed bag with this,loads will want to drive the vans loads wont.

We have car users at my place who do not want to drive a van.They have asked me what is next,they know i'm on here ect.
I STILL can not give them a straight answer!
Will they be forced,and will some of my colleagues be transferred out of the office to get drivers in?

[fishtank]

It is also very easy to critise and moan from the sidelines
It's a bit tougher to get involved and be responsible for your actions
Not just you Pickname but I have to agree with Night Tonic this site is becoming Royalwhinge.
Yes we all have a right to moan now and again but everthing doesn't have to be negative.

What is happening on this site is that people are quite rightly asking questions.
Now if someone wishes to post positive answers to those questions that are based on fact i'm all for it.
Unfortunately most of the answers at the moment appear to be negative and you cannot expect positive responses from negative answers.
Royalmailwhinge...no... more like Royalmailworried.

[Martin Walsh]

Axeman the tax issue is rubbish does not apply. In the same way as it does not apply to BT or British Gas. This issue has been fully clarified with the tax office.

Now in terms of advising someone to drive , well we were in a bitter dispute and these postman were being told to drive and they were holding the union line. The legal advice was not the best and they had second stage conduct code interviews pending which could have led to their dismissal.

Why would any union allow these indivduals to get the sack for holding the union line ? We were still taking industrial action , the cdvs were still failing and we eventually got an agreement which got them the 4 day week back and 8 jobs back plus those indivduals now like the idea of CDVs.

The refusal to volunter was tactic which delayed the introduction of CDVs but it certainly was not about getting indivduals the sack for holding the union line.

Some of you have to understand how bitter things were in some areas last year as a result of the strike action and executive action.

The union was hardly weak, Royal Mail tried to break us and they did not want any agreement and they only wanted the dutch delivery model which is based on 90% part timers with many who dont have an office to work from.

[woofwoof]

There will be a mixed bag with this,loads will want to drive the vans loads wont.

We have car users at my place who do not want to drive a van.They have asked me what is next,they know i'm on here ect.
I STILL can not give them a straight answer!
Will they be forced,and will some of my colleagues be transferred out of the office to get drivers in?

id say if you havent got the seniority its a case of drive here or goto another office if you dont take a job in the end its a case of
we offered you a job theres none left get to the dole office
rember no compulsory redundancies so where do the mail centre staff go who want to keep a job

[POSTMAN]

Dingo i was there ect,but please just answer the below,put us out of our misery.
And it's not about us or my collegues wanting to stop it coming in.If whatever is in the agreement personally i will swallow it.

We have car users at my place who do not want to drive a van.They have asked me what is next,they know i'm on here ect.
I STILL can not give them a straight answer!
Will they be forced,and will some of my colleagues be transferred out of the office to get drivers in?

[Straight4ward]

If one DO has a shortage of drivers and a surplus of walkers and an adjacent or nearby office has the opposite, then you don’t need to be a genius to work out how RM will solve the problem.

Also:
Taken from the Statement of Term & Conditions of Employment – Standard Contract For Postpersons (OPG Grade)

7. Place of Work/Mobility Clause
Your initial place of work will be xxxxx Delivery Office. The needs of Royal Mail require mobility. You may therefore be required to work at any other work location of Royal Mail Group plc.

[Martin Walsh]

Postman the guidelines talk about volunteers only but and there is a but if any office collectively decides to all veto the CDVs then management will say to the union that is not in line with the spirit of the agreement.

Royal Mail in their original guidelines had the option of compulsion but the union mangaged to remove it but on the basis that they would not be a collective opposition to CDVs.

So yes individuals will not be forced to drive CDVs in line with the guidelines. But if an office has collectively decided that noone will volunteer then I expect Royal Mail will ask for urgent talks with the union to discuss this issue in the same way if Royal Mail break the agreement that the union will demand that management act.

[POSTMAN]

Postman the guidelines talk about volunteers only but and there is a but if any office collectively decides to all veto the CDVs then management will say to the union that is not in line with the spirit of the agreement.

Royal Mail in their original guidelines had the option of compulsion but the union mangaged to remove it but on the basis that they would not be a collective opposition to CDVs.

So yes individuals will not be forced to drive CDVs in line with the guidelines. But if an office has collectively decided that noone will volunteer then I expect Royal Mail will ask for urgent talks with the union to discuss this issue in the same way if Royal Mail break the agreement that the union will demand that management act.

Thanks,it's a few not us lot saying bollox to it,chances are they will change their minds anyway.Like i said it's in and we have to go with it.Cheers

EDIT:What would happen if an office genuinely did not have enough drivers?Off the top of my head my place is tight.