Part timers to be FORCED to work afternoons

[SpacePhoenix]

https://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communi ... 18&t=97017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scheduled to be fully operational by early 2022, the Cheshire hub will be able to handle 800,000+ parcels per day, and to achieve the desired levels of parcel sortation Royal Mail specified widespread use of automation.

That's just the one hub, assuming all three have the same setup then that's potentially 2.4million between them. For them to use that capacity it's likely going to mean ALL Tracked going through them, any non-Tracked shoe box size or larger and they'll probably still have a fair bit of capacity left so they're bound to look at what else they can put through the machines at the hubs

[Woody Guthrie]

2.4 million sounds like a huge number but it only equates to around 2000 items per delivery office per day large parcels and tracked, and that's at full capacity. It's not a huge number and well within the capabilities of a large DO to handle those numbers for multiple offices.

We could argue numbers all day but the bottom line is your constant assertion that delivery office start times will be moving much later just doesn't stack up.

It would completely undermine the LAT model if the parent DO didn't start until later because those vans need to be back for the afternoon operation and it would give Royal Mail major retention problems as well as potential legal issues. They will not go down that route just to reduce some shift allowances from an MC which will reduce considerably anyway once the large parcels and tracked move out of the MC network.

You've been saying this for years now and as yet it hasn't happened.

[SpacePhoenix]

It would completely undermine the LAT model if the parent DO didn't start until later because those vans need to be back for the afternoon operation and it would give Royal Mail major retention problems as well as potential legal issues. They will not go down that route just to reduce some shift allowances from an MC which will reduce considerably anyway once the large parcels and tracked move out of the MC network.

We don't have a separate LAT system here, it either arrives in time to be processed and go out on the final dispatch or it fails.

[Woody Guthrie]

It would completely undermine the LAT model if the parent DO didn't start until later because those vans need to be back for the afternoon operation and it would give Royal Mail major retention problems as well as potential legal issues. They will not go down that route just to reduce some shift allowances from an MC which will reduce considerably anyway once the large parcels and tracked move out of the MC network.

We don't have a separate LAT system here, it either arrives in time to be processed and go out on the final dispatch or it fails.

With all due respect that isn't how the LAT is supposed to work but it won't matter once the hubs are up and running, you won't see that work.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I do like a dose of Grims Fairy tales, but just like some of the most famous stories such as crying wolf, or announcing the sky is falling, it ruins the reputation of the poster.

Looks like someone has some reputation recovery work to do.

Has your delivery office got a shortage of vans? If so, with the unions backing part-timers are to be given the following choice, use your own car on delivery or work afternoons. I think this is disgraceful.

So from posts above, nothing official, a discussion which you were not part of, it was overheard so you may not have heard both sides or the whole conversation.

Is it wrong to post information you come across - depends people have been disciplined for posting that sort of stuff on here, however, if you want to take the risk it's better to give context or qualifiers. To claim something is so concrete in your first post is bound to upset people.

In my honest opinion you should have posted something like this, it would certainly have caused some friction but hopefully not as much.

Just overheard a conversation between the Area Rep and Area Manager. Looks like they may be giving Part-timers the option of starting later or using private cars, can they do this:

The answer would be No - it's against current national agreements.

[SpacePhoenix]

It would completely undermine the LAT model if the parent DO didn't start until later because those vans need to be back for the afternoon operation and it would give Royal Mail major retention problems as well as potential legal issues. They will not go down that route just to reduce some shift allowances from an MC which will reduce considerably anyway once the large parcels and tracked move out of the MC network.

We don't have a separate LAT system here, it either arrives in time to be processed and go out on the final dispatch or it fails.

With all due respect that isn't how the LAT is supposed to work but it won't matter once the hubs are up and running, you won't see that work.

Again it'll need to arrive by the time of our final dispatch or it won't go anywhere. The alternative will be to push our final dispatch times back a bit. They'll be sending loads of work back to MCs from the hubs. You can take a good look at the yorks of "large", well over half it it will actually be small.

I believe our final dispatch is due to leave around 06:30. After that we don't have any runs to DOs until the lorries or vans pick up the collections later in the day

[97gaz]

That's on average each LAT servicing 3 offices.

We're probably a medium office. 50 ish duties. We are also a Lat Office. We serve three Offices, two of which are deep rural and one predominantly Urban.

A typical large office will receive anything between 2000 and 5000 Tracked per day outside of Christmas , a smaller office half that and an SPDO as little as 100-500 but most of those tracked will be small and continue through the existing network.

On an average day we will receive 7-800 tracked every morning and last christmas we broke the 2000 barrier most days. That's about one tracked for every 25 houses not including Xmas.

At most an LAT office is likely to be handling 1500 large tracked and maybe the same in large parcels on the late shift and even that could be some time down the line.

Given that we are a very deep rural Office and the vast majority of the Lats we get now are for the urban office, I think we'll see 2000+ in total.

25 staff could handle that on the afternoon shift which in my office which would probably be about 15% of staff. Capacity isn't an issue

If we had 20 staff (and vehicles) ready to go at say 1pm then we might be able cover the three offices. However 20 staff for us is 31% of our available staff. Most of our duties are very deep rural with more than one doing over a hundred miles a day. Our furthest delivery point is 37 miles away. Only 12 of those 50 duties are walking duties tying up 6 vans. (We have 40 vans). Very few vehicles return before 2.30pm. (We're 7.30 start till 3ish.) And if the plan goes ahead to free up Lat staff by giving other staff more work then that finish time will be even later, shortening the time the Lat staff have to deliver. We can't start the duties any later because 11 of the rural are also hybrid collection duties.

It definitely won't work here in an office that will be covering 400 square miles and about 50k+ delivery points. Not with the staff we will have available on a daily basis which will be probably about 8 staff.

I know all cases have to be looked at from a local perspective and I think for us we will have to take some staff on. Probably from one of our Lat offices. This will still probably be a considerable net loss of staff for Royal Mail but I can't see how else they'll do it.

About six months ago the Boss asked me to take out two packets because it was going to take the Lat guy over his four hours scheduled. I clocked up 93 miles and it took me two and a half hours.

[Binsey]

It would completely undermine the LAT model if the parent DO didn't start until later because those vans need to be back for the afternoon operation and it would give Royal Mail major retention problems as well as potential legal issues. They will not go down that route just to reduce some shift allowances from an MC which will reduce considerably anyway once the large parcels and tracked move out of the MC network.

We don't have a separate LAT system here, it either arrives in time to be processed and go out on the final dispatch or it fails.

With all due respect that isn't how the LAT is supposed to work but it won't matter once the hubs are up and running, you won't see that work.

Again it'll need to arrive by the time of our final dispatch or it won't go anywhere. The alternative will be to push our final dispatch times back a bit. They'll be sending loads of work back to MCs from the hubs. You can take a good look at the yorks of "large", well over half it it will actually be small.

I believe our final dispatch is due to leave around 06:30. After that we don't have any runs to DOs until the lorries or vans pick up the collections later in the day

Sorry Space Phoenix you need to stop thinking in the present tense.
As someone who has been to the new Hub at Warrington quite a few times recently. RM are thinking Big VERY BIG in fact game changing stuff.
A lot of MCs are in for a shock.

[Janet Brum]

Can you give us more details?

[SpacePhoenix]

It would completely undermine the LAT model if the parent DO didn't start until later because those vans need to be back for the afternoon operation and it would give Royal Mail major retention problems as well as potential legal issues. They will not go down that route just to reduce some shift allowances from an MC which will reduce considerably anyway once the large parcels and tracked move out of the MC network.

We don't have a separate LAT system here, it either arrives in time to be processed and go out on the final dispatch or it fails.

With all due respect that isn't how the LAT is supposed to work but it won't matter once the hubs are up and running, you won't see that work.

Again it'll need to arrive by the time of our final dispatch or it won't go anywhere. The alternative will be to push our final dispatch times back a bit. They'll be sending loads of work back to MCs from the hubs. You can take a good look at the yorks of "large", well over half it it will actually be small.

I believe our final dispatch is due to leave around 06:30. After that we don't have any runs to DOs until the lorries or vans pick up the collections later in the day

Sorry Space Phoenix you need to stop thinking in the present tense.
As someone who has been to the new Hub at Warrington quite a few times recently. RM are thinking Big VERY BIG in fact game changing stuff.
A lot of MCs are in for a shock.

Doesn't change the fact that it either arrives in time to connect with the final dispatches or it doesn't go anywhere. Itf they do have anything planned then it can only be pushing final dispatches back as for most DOs there won't be the work to justify sending the final dispatches so early

[Sir Henry]

[Woody Guthrie]

Again it'll need to arrive by the time of our final dispatch or it won't go anywhere

I'm not sure if I'm speaking a different language but for the umpteenth and last time it won't need to arrive by the time of your last dispatches because it won't be coming anywhere near you.

The idea is that the large tracked and parcels along with the LAT stream bypasses the MC network entirely and goes directly from the hubs to the LAT DOs.

I'm not saying that will happen in every case because some LAT offices have HGV space restrictions but in that case all that will happen is a double decker will arrive at the MC and decant straight into a couple of 600s. You'll probably not even know it's been and gone.

You will lose that work completely.

[SpacePhoenix]

Again it'll need to arrive by the time of our final dispatch or it won't go anywhere

I'm not sure if I'm speaking a different language but for the umpteenth and last time it won't need to arrive by the time of your last dispatches because it won't be coming anywhere near you.

The idea is that the large tracked and parcels along with the LAT stream bypasses the MC network entirely and goes directly from the hubs to the LAT DOs.

I'm not saying that will happen in every case because some LAT offices have HGV space restrictions but in that case all that will happen is a double decker will arrive at the MC and decant straight into a couple of 600s. You'll probably not even know it's been and gone.

You will lose that work completely.

Only 1 DO in the area could handle artics. The LAT offices will need to provided at least the drivers maybe even the 600s as well. AFAIK all our drivers finish after they get back from the final dispatches

[Woody Guthrie]

AFAIK all our drivers finish after they get back from the final dispatches

But they won't because there won't be as many dispatches because they won't be taking large packets and tracked to DOs.

As I said already network and distribution is the key and we don't know what shape that will take. You're still thinking like everything will remain as it was, it won't. The spare resource freed up by the removal of large tracked and packets in the network may be redeployed along with the 600s directly to the hubs. That doesn't necessarily mean directly from your MC although hours will definitely be removed, it means from the entire network.

[SpacePhoenix]

AFAIK all our drivers finish after they get back from the final dispatches

But they won't because there won't be as many dispatches because they won't be taking large packets and tracked to DOs.

As I said already network and distribution is the key and we don't know what shape that will take. You're still thinking like everything will remain as it was, it won't. The spare resource freed up by the removal of large tracked and packets in the network may be redeployed along with the 600s directly to the hubs. That doesn't necessarily mean directly from your MC although hours will definitely be removed, it means from the entire network.

They'll still be the same number of final dispatches. All the SDs go out on them. They'll just do away with the earlier dispatches

For processing it won't make any difference to the amount of hours, just less casuals needed. I believe that most of our drivers are part time.